Bruckner8

A: Competitive Inertia

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. It's just easier to give it to the corps that has done it before.

The judges had no problem having BK beat SCV earlier this year. One would think SCV would have gotten the benefit of the doubt early, rather than later in the season. Epecially with a BK Corps that had never beaten SCV before. But the reverse was true. BK was able to overcome the perception earlier in the season. But as the season moved along, SCV moved ahead... way ahead of BK. The Bluecoats, on the other hand, rose up right out of the gate this year, and stayed ahead of The Cadets and Crown pretty much all year. The Cadets are a perennal TOP 3 Corps. One would think they'd catch Bloo come Finals. But the judges actually allowed BLOO to expand their lead over Cadets by Finals week. This tells me that the judges would have been prepared for BLOO to beat Cavies at Finals too , if they thought they were better than the Cavies at Finals. The judges certainly found BLOO better than Cavies just a few weeks earlier this year. They were prepared to do so at Finals. But he Cavies appeared to them to be a bit better at Finals,that's all, imo.

This does not ring true.

date show Bluecoats The Cadets Winner Margin

6/21/2010 Charleston, WV 73.600 75.800 The Cadets 2.200

7/25/2010 San Antonio, TX 89.950 89.250 Bluecoats 0.700

7/30/2010 Murfreesboro, TN 93.550 90.900 Bluecoats 2.650

7/31/2010 Atlanta, GA 93.750 91.450 Bluecoats 2.300

8/3/2010 Massillon, OH 93.750 92.450 Bluecoats 1.300

8/6/2010 Lawrence, MA 94.600 92.500 Bluecoats 2.100

8/7/2010 Allentown, PA 94.650 93.650 Bluecoats 1.000

8/12/2010 Indianapolis, IN 96.250 94.450 Bluecoats 1.800

8/13/2010 Indianapolis, IN 96.500 94.850 Bluecoats 1.650

8/14/2010 Indianapolis, IN 96.400 95.100 Bluecoats 1.300

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Political Correctness has nothing to do with a theory based on the scientific method (http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_scientific_method.shtml). I merely make observations, propose the CI theory, and test it every year. It has yet to be debunked. Feel free to state where it has failed, thus making you call it BS. Use the link provided as a guide to show my failures.

That would require me caring enough to read a bunch of additional BS that I don't have time for so I'll just go ahead and dismiss CI as BS PDQ. OK? :thumbup:

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There was a period in time that we Cavaliers call "The Dark Years" during which they placed 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, etc. There was even 1 year when the Corps was told "If we don't make Finals, we're done!" (God bless them, they knuckled down & made it!)Well it took a LONG time until their 1st DCI Title in '92.

CI? At the beginning of DCI, The Cavaliers had a pretty good record of AL & VFW National and State titles, but as I've already said it took time to get back on top!

I think returning members provide a strong part of the overall success. In the Fall of 2001 I saw 100s of kids audition for 5 open spots in the 2002 snare line (I think I have that number right, if not I will stand corrected). Those who didn't "make the cut" went on to audition for other Corps, and many returned to audition the following year. Nor do I think that this is an exclusively Cavalier scenario. So what attracts them to so called "top tier" Corps?

Winning and/or challenging shows designed by STAFF!

This is a complex formula you've presented here & certainly one worthy of contemplation. I don't know if "Judges" begin a Season considering CI or "The Big Mo', but I would certainly hope not. Without pre-judging Corps previous achievements, and with open minds, they could decide that last years #10 (or 11 0r 12 0r whatever number) had presented a performance demanding a higher, if not winning, position.

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This does not ring true.

date show Bluecoats The Cadets Winner Margin

6/21/2010 Charleston, WV 73.600 75.800 The Cadets 2.200

7/25/2010 San Antonio, TX 89.950 89.250 Bluecoats 0.700

7/30/2010 Murfreesboro, TN 93.550 90.900 Bluecoats 2.650

7/31/2010 Atlanta, GA 93.750 91.450 Bluecoats 2.300

8/3/2010 Massillon, OH 93.750 92.450 Bluecoats 1.300

8/6/2010 Lawrence, MA 94.600 92.500 Bluecoats 2.100

8/7/2010 Allentown, PA 94.650 93.650 Bluecoats 1.000

8/12/2010 Indianapolis, IN 96.250 94.450 Bluecoats 1.800

8/13/2010 Indianapolis, IN 96.500 94.850 Bluecoats 1.650

8/14/2010 Indianapolis, IN 96.400 95.100 Bluecoats 1.300

First show... Cadets beat Bluecoats by 2.00 pts.

last show.....Bluecoats beat Cadets by 1.300

I'd say these results are compatible with my remarks above regarding the judges willingness to set aside both history and CE for Bluecoats transition from both last year, as well as competitive movement from the first show of this year to Finals this year. Sure, there was an ebb and flow. ( Bloo did get better score spreads over Cadets at Finals week than in Allentown just the week before, for example. )

Edited by BRASSO

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IMO these corps continue to stay at the top because they have such a reputation of success and image that kids who march other corps use those corps as stepping stones to get to one of the top corps. The hardest thing for a corps to overcome is losing their most talented and experienced players to the top corps.

I agree that member retention is a huge factor (along with consistency of staff and some other things that were mentioned). I believe it's one of the biggest factors for Bluecoats current success. When I marched, Bluecoats was one of those "stepping stone" corps. Yes, we had our share of vets who remained loyal to the corps, but alot of talent moved on to the top ranking corps instead of returning to Bluecoats.

In 1999 the corps dropped out of top 12 and the vets recognized that the competitive success of the corps depended on member retention and it was really emphasized and instilled into the existing vets and incoming rookies. You can see the results of the member retention in the progress made in their finals placements over the last ten years. But even in 2007 when they placed 7th, it was arguably the most talented corps to date. They just had the bad luck of it being a very competitve year (bad for them, but good for fans I think) where Crown was also up and coming and other established corps were all packed together within 1 point score-wise.

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Winning and/or challenging shows designed by STAFF!

I agree! That's it right there in a nutshell. Enough with all this CI theory and conceptual stuff.

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I agree! That's it right there in a nutshell. Enough with all this CI theory and conceptual stuff.

OK, great. Staff's the same, design's the same, each corps has 100% retention.

Now, what do we do when the corps are close? How do we make a decision?

ANSWER: CI.

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OK, great. Staff's the same, design's the same, each corps has 100% retention.

Now, what do we do when the corps are close? How do we make a decision?

ANSWER: CI.

Simple...the best corps wins...lol

I get your point though...My opinion is that the judging system needs to be less subjective in this regard. I just don't have the power to change it.

Alternatively, it seems on the surface that only a few corps have figured out the big secret on how to win a championship. I guarantee though if I bankrolled a "dream staff", they would win a championship in a short period of time(3 to 5 years). You are not going to convince me otherwise either. It's a lot about money.

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Simple...the best corps wins...lol

Lolz...I've got a used car I'd like to sell you.

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CI did not prevent Blooo from beating the Cavies. The Cavies prevented Blooo from beating the Cavies (no offense intended to Blooo). I think both corps were great, but it was clear to me by Denver that the only corps with a legit shot at beating BD, the only corps with the talent AND design to beat BD was the Cavies. As they cleaned up they got more and more credit. You could see it coming a mile away.

You use so many subjective descriptions to rationalize your hypothesis like "Everyone seemed to agree...", or "show was clearly better during finals and score went down...".

Not exactly the most objective of observations.

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