Bruckner8

A: Competitive Inertia

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In an activity that is 100% subjective, CI proposes that humans doing the judging will, in all instances, act like humans.

We've seen it in other areas of society for years:

Cars: Detroit got the benefit of the doubt for years - perhaps decades - until they made it completely obvious that their competition was superior...and now CI works AGAINST Detroit.

some sports - like Ice Skating, and other 'judged' sports: the ones who've been there receive 'been there/done that' advantages that the noobs can only dream of -

Race and sex: who among us has not heard the adage, 'A [fill in your minority of choice...] must be twice as good as a white man to be viewed as an equal' - it's not mass hysteria...it's CI working in this area -

Baseball: this is so easy - Bruckner used it in his OP - the strike zone - it's bigger if you're a batting or pitching legend...smaller if you're a rookie...

Football: 20 million dollar quarterback sees far more roughing the passer calls against the opposing team than Joe Schmoe rookie does -

It's all CI - not a plot, not a slot...just human nature -

Edited by FHdork

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As Crown found out, it's even MORE difficult to stay on top. Bloo has to come out with a vengeance next year, or they will be spanked HARD. BD, Cavies and Cadets WILL BE THERE.

This is so true. Especially since Cadets and Cavies have gone longer than they are used to without a chamionship (5 years for Cadets, 4 for Cavies). They are getting hungry.

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There was a period in time that we Cavaliers call "The Dark Years" during which they placed 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, etc. There was even 1 year when the Corps was told "If we don't make Finals, we're done!" (God bless them, they knuckled down & made it!)Well it took a LONG time until their 1st DCI Title in '92.

CI? At the beginning of DCI, The Cavaliers had a pretty good record of AL & VFW National and State titles, but as I've already said it took time to get back on top!

I think returning members provide a strong part of the overall success. In the Fall of 2001 I saw 100s of kids audition for 5 open spots in the 2002 snare line (I think I have that number right, if not I will stand corrected). Those who didn't "make the cut" went on to audition for other Corps, and many returned to audition the following year. Nor do I think that this is an exclusively Cavalier scenario. So what attracts them to so called "top tier" Corps?

Winning and/or challenging shows designed by STAFF!

This is a complex formula you've presented here & certainly one worthy of contemplation. I don't know if "Judges" begin a Season considering CI or "The Big Mo', but I would certainly hope not. Without pre-judging Corps previous achievements, and with open minds, they could decide that last years #10 (or 11 0r 12 0r whatever number) had presented a performance demanding a higher, if not winning, position.

This has been mentioned by others, but when PR came out of the gates in 09, they were immediately scored much higher (IMO) due to CI. The judges fairly quickly began to scrutinize the show and separate it from the previous year's amazing production and (again IMO) began to say, "Oh...., uh oh".

This is perhaps the most amazing thing about BD or Cavies or Cadets....keeping in the top 5 is extremely difficult...keeping in the top 3 is insane!!!

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How did it apply in 93, when Regiment went from 8th to 3rd? Do you think that corps had ANY inertia as it walked off the field in 92?

Not sure about inertia, but I know they had TONS of that shiny blue material to get rid of.

Edited by Tim Coffey

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CI did not prevent Blooo from beating the Cavies. The Cavies prevented Blooo from beating the Cavies (no offense intended to Blooo). I think both corps were great, but it was clear to me by Denver that the only corps with a legit shot at beating BD, the only corps with the talent AND design to beat BD was the Cavies. As they cleaned up they got more and more credit. You could see it coming a mile away.

You use so many subjective descriptions to rationalize your hypothesis like "Everyone seemed to agree...", or "show was clearly better during finals and score went down...".

Not exactly the most objective of observations.

I largely agree with this. The only corps with the show to challenge BD was Cavies (at the end) and Cadets (earlier in season). Cadets show was a great idea but it got too cute and when their "actor" became more talked about then the corps itself...you have done overshot the runway George!! :thumbup: Cavies had a championship show on any other year then this one as BD's show design was just too off the charts (almost to the point of being unfair). Blooo on the other hand had a production that did not have enough of a hook (vague theme) to challenge BD, but they were performing at a historic level....literally, in all captions and powering their way into the top 3...it was going to happen...period, and really sort of cool to watch!

In 2011, the corps with the most critical CI issues are Crown and Blooo, it they don't challenge for the top 3 they risk falling back into their old groove. CI says the judges will give them a little benefit of the doubt but as PR knows that #### lasts about 3 shows and when the judges get comfortable scoring you lower, say good bye.

The take away from this year is the drum corps fan "love fest" is fickle....the fans will jump to whoever is percieved to be within striking distance to BD. They didn't completely drop Blooo, but somewhere after Atlanta, the fans began to migrate to their No 1 contender to catch BD......Cavies! It was interesting to watch....and a study of drum corps fan dynamics (which has a sort of inertia itself). There's one for you there, Bruckner8.... DC Fan Inertia!!!

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Now, what do we do when the corps are close? How do we make a decision?

ANSWER: CI.

How does CI explain Crown vs. Cadets in 2009 and 2010? Both extremely close races, all season long. Both decided by tenths in Crown's favor. It seems like CI would clearly predict the opposite outcome.

I'd also ask why it is that percussion judges seem to be immune to CI? Last week, Kristensen, Uliony and Griffin had no trouble writing down winning numbers for PR 90 minutes or so before BD hit the field. BD seemingly had no inertia in that caption.

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Percussion scoring has been relatively CI free for decades - in the 70s (and maybe the 80s...), the 'winning' drum line didn't even perform on Saturday! All judges should strive to score the corps in front of them exactly where they think that corps caption belongs...though if you've got 13 or 14 more to go, it seems impossible to give someone a 9 in brass (as it seems to be for judges listening to Academy's horn line...)

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the drum judges did what you're supposed to do, leave room for the remaining corps in case they're better, but score them lower if they are not. This is why phantom won drums with a 19.6 and not a 19.9. if Phantom had gone on next to last they would have scored higher in drums, but because they went on so early the judge had to leave room just in case the remaining 5 corps drum lines were better. They could reasonably be safe in giving a 19.6 since two of those remaining lines had consistently not challenged PR for the top spot in drums, but three had so they needed to leave room in case those three were able to show they were better.

Edited by bluecoats88

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Percussion scoring has been relatively CI free for decades - in the 70s (and maybe the 80s...), the 'winning' drum line didn't even perform on Saturday! All judges should strive to score the corps in front of them exactly where they think that corps caption belongs...though if you've got 13 or 14 more to go, it seems impossible to give someone a 9 in brass (as it seems to be for judges listening to Academy's horn line...)

With all of the GH resentment building up, who do you think has more CI these days, Crown or Cadets? I'm being dead serious here. I'd actually be impressed of the judges had "the nerve" to make a call against Cadets (who have WAY MORE CI than Crown over their lifetimes). It gives me hope, actually. Again, we're assuming they're very close to each other.

EDIT:

I have the wrong quote in here...I was not trying to respond to FHdork, but to this by ShortAndFast:

[How does CI explain Crown vs. Cadets in 2009 and 2010? Both extremely close races, all season long. Both decided by tenths in Crown's favor. It seems like CI would clearly predict the opposite outcome.]

Edited by Bruckner8

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