LancerLegend Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 ......What I remember most though are those great shows like the Danny Thomas Invitational, World Open and CYO Nationals, ....... Yo Puppet - what I remember most, is that those three shows were in my backyard, within a 20 mile radius, and the same week. I miss the "invitational" type shows, where although they were sanctioned by DCI - the sponsors invited the corps. CYO Nationals was a gas, a chance to play for a HUGE hometown who were diehard drum corps fans. Winning it in 1977, after all of the great, great 27th Lancers corps that came before me: Priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoods59 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Hi. Good questions. I answer them in longer form in my book about The Cavaliers and their founder Don Warren, but here's the "Colt's Notes" version.That winter, at the Legion's convention in Indianapolis (irony alert!), the Combine met in secret with its counterparts in the Eastern United Organizaton of Junior Corps. They voted, and formed Drum Corps International, with 13 charter corps. They crafted their own rules, set up their own contests, and with each of the directors on the line PERSONALLY for a bank loan to finance their first championship, hosted that contest in August 1972 in Whitewater, Wisc. Anaheim won the first championship, and within a few years Santa Clara Vanguard was dancing, the Cadets were singing "Amen," and the rest is history! Colt-of those 13 charter member corps, I hear that 2 of them never made a DCI finals show. Who would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Blue Rock Blessed Sac Boston Crusaders too Colt-of those 13 charter member corps, I hear that 2 of them never made a DCI finals show. Who would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkyeag Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 - competition was fierce.Sunday July 18, 1971 Lawrence MA Danny Thomas Invitational 1 27th Lancers 84.450 2 Santa Clara Vanguard 84.100 3 Troopers 82.300 4 Cavaliers 81.000 5 St. Rita's Brassmen 80.950 6 Boston Crusaders 80.300 7 Madison Scouts 78.300 8 Blue Stars 77.850 9 De LaSalle Oaklands 73.800 10 Blessed Sacrament 70.450 11 Argonne Rebels 69.900 12 Spectacle City Mariners 52.350 One only needs to look at Argonne's scores during the one-month period from July 18, 1971 (Danny Thomas Invitational, 69.90, 13th place) to August 19, 1971 (VFW finals, 87.35) to understand the dynamics of the period. During that time, our scores increased 4.36 per week (in the tick era),...17.45 for the month. At the completion of the VFW prelims in Dallas, our fourth place standing was only .95 out of first, ...and we had just overtaken the World Open Champions from a month earlier (27th) by half a point. We had beaten the Troopers four days earlier. We won the AL Championship in Houston one week later. Any meaningful evaluation of 1971 can NOT be made against the backdrop of today's environment. There were multiple, historically significant championships, each with their own nuances and biases. The challanges that corps faced were compounded by judging inconsistencies and regional tendencies. There were multiple sets of score sheets, with varying point values assigned to the captions. Their make up was controlled by the veteran's organizations. It was an incredible time! Jeff Yeager Argonne 1967-1974 KAC 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastone Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 One only needs to look at Argonne's scores during the one-month period from July 18, 1971 (Danny Thomas Invitational, 69.90, 13th place) to August 19, 1971 (VFW finals, 87.35) to understand the dynamics of the period. During that time, our scores increased 4.36 per week (in the tick era),...17.45 for the month. At the completion of the VFW prelims in Dallas, our fourth place standing was only .95 out of first, ...and we had just overtaken the World Open Champions from a month earlier (27th) by half a point. We had beaten the Troopers four days earlier. We won the AL Championship in Houston one week later.Any meaningful evaluation of 1971 can NOT be made against the backdrop of today's environment. There were multiple, historically significant championships, each with their own nuances and biases. The challanges that corps faced were compounded by judging inconsistencies and regional tendencies. There were multiple sets of score sheets, with varying point values assigned to the captions. Their make up was controlled by the veteran's organizations. It was an incredible time! Jeff Yeager Argonne 1967-1974 KAC 2007 At that time depending on where you were or who was judging, your scores could jump or drop by as much as 5-7 points from one show to the next because as much as folks don't want to admit it, there was a lot of regional bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 At that time depending on where you were or who was judging, your scores could jump or drop by as much as 5-7 points from one show to the next because as much as folks don't want to admit it, there was a lot of regional bias. I hear ya, Frank! Even the local-circuit corps were affected by the point swings. That season.... 1971.... my junior corps, the Manville Crusaders, lost to the Chessmen from PA by some huge margin... 10 points, something like that.... in an Eastern States show, and then beat the Chessmen not too long after that, by a much smaller margin at the US Open prelims. I'm not saying we were consistently better than the Chessmen..... we weren't that season..... but I don't think we were 10 points worse than them, either. Fran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Drum Corps Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Eastern States Judges (Massachusetts) were known for their favoritetism to Massachusetts corps. World Open was usually a good example of this. We could beat those corps anywhere but in Boston on certain years. Sometimes even a Connecticut corps would slip into finals never to heard from for the rest of the season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancerLegend Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 One only needs to look at Argonne's scores during the one-month period from July 18, 1971 (Danny Thomas Invitational, 69.90, 13th place) to August 19, 1971 (VFW finals, 87.35) to understand the dynamics of the period. During that time, our scores increased 4.36 per week (in the tick era),...17.45 for the month. At the completion of the VFW prelims in Dallas, our fourth place standing was only .95 out of first, ...and we had just overtaken the World Open Champions from a month earlier (27th) by half a point. We had beaten the Troopers four days earlier. We won the AL Championship in Houston one week later.Any meaningful evaluation of 1971 can NOT be made against the backdrop of today's environment. There were multiple, historically significant championships, each with their own nuances and biases. The challanges that corps faced were compounded by judging inconsistencies and regional tendencies. There were multiple sets of score sheets, with varying point values assigned to the captions. Their make up was controlled by the veteran's organizations. It was an incredible time! Jeff Yeager Argonne 1967-1974 KAC 2007 Well said Jeff. You could not get "down" after a loss, because "on any given day...." was more true then than today. In the modern era, judges are kept together for several shows in a row, and more shows are held during the week throughout the season. Oh yea - and the season is a few weeks shorter !!! One thing you gotta give Argonne credit for - is that hornline. Sandra Opie earned more famed for her judging because Argonne was long gone, but if I can make comparisons, she was a female equivalent of Wayne Downey. (Now...don't go and flame me for my remark - it is a comparison based on that era). I think you might admit, 27th was very strong in 1971, and was on a roll starting at 71 CYO and concluding at Danny Thomas. There may have been some regional bias, but I assure you, it was harder for us to win over our local judging chapter that you will ever know. Few kids today have ever heard of the album 5.0 !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geneva Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 On the topic of regional judging circuit bias, I would add a memory of a trip to Canada from upstate New York in 1966. St. Joe's had been besting the Canadian front-runner, Toronto Optimists, by several points at NYS shows up until that point in the season and we in the Appleknockers had just beaten De La Salle. At that show somewhere in western Ontario, I can clearly remember the Canadian judging association in the forest green unis and the knowing smirks on the faces of Opti members as we queued for retreat to hear the pronouncement that Joe's and us had been bested by POINTS by our Canadian competitors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkyeag Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 One thing you gotta give Argonne credit for - is that hornline. Sandra Opie earned more famed for her judging because Argonne was long gone, but if I can make comparisons, she was a female equivalent of Wayne Downey. (Now...don't go and flame me for my remark - it is a comparison based on that era). Thanks for mentioning Sandra. Sandra did not arrange music, and I believe spent more time judging. Other than that, I will leave the comparisons to others. I can share with you that there are those who believe Sandra's early 70's hornlines are among (if not the) most technically proficient horn lines in the history of the activity. Those beliefs are generally based on a simple premise. The vast majority of kid's in Sandra's horn lines were taught to play their instruments the same/correct way, by the same incredibly gifted person. If you would like more details, please see: http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=5...b9-6e2478272910 And yes, there is reference to gender bias in the article. JKY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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