bedford Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 This topic, like so many others, is about George Hopkins. It's natural for topics to gravitate to him even if they don't start out about him. Therefore, conversely, it's natural for topics that start out about him to gravitate to hot dogs and other things equally irrelevant.As for your surmising about Hopkins not eating hot dogs, Hopkins does eat hot dogs, except when he doesn't eat hot dogs. It's all very zen and keeps the yin and yang of the universe in balance. Good to see you back posting Michael! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSnareline Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 I'm hoping for nothing but success for the youth drumline. Good for Hopkins and for the kids who partake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Good to see you back posting Michael! Thanks. It feels good to be back after the past five months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Bauglir Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 (edited) To be honest, the activity has already changed to something I don't enjoy anymore. This is the first time I have been on this forum in probably 6 months. I have every top 12 corps and some 12- mp3s from 94-04, but after 04 there are maybe 5 shows total that I can stand listening to. I don't know why, but I just don't really find the new direction of drum corps to be something I like. There was a lot of talk a few years ago about how some people would leave drum corps if amps, singing, and electronics became the norm. Some doubted whether those people were serious about leaving. Well it became the norm, and I did leave. I didn't go to a single live show in 06 or 07. I went to the 07 theater broadcast and didn't really like it. The point of this being, if changing the activity is what some want to do, go for it. But the idea of alienating previous fans is very real. I honestly think that the idea that diversity is a goal in and of itself if one of the most corrosive and disastrous ideas in America. If people really want race to not matter, they need to stop making it matter. If people of many races like something, great. If they don't great. If only one race mostly likes it, great. If only one race mostly doesn't like it, great. It doesn't matter. Race should not be an issue. And bringing this stuff up just keeps making it an issue. Just let people enjoy what they enjoy. Drum corps has its foundations in military style formal "rigid" classical type music. A lot of people enjoy that. Who cares if it's "92% white?" People like what they like. There are other types of music that other races mostly enjoy. I'm not going to demand they change to accommodate me. I'm fine with thigns just flowing how they flow. Forcing changes that people don't like in order to bring some fabricated social construct into reality is the worst idea ever. It's OK to like or not like some of the same or different things. Just in this past Sunday's Detroit Free Press there was a great article about this exact same issue on diversity. How there is only 15 blacks in currently in the NHL. The main issue is about accessability to ice rinks, and in many cases, costs. In talking with a past fellow employee who has a son in travel hockey, it costs him $2000+ just for equipment and rink fees, that doesn't count the travel cost. Did they happen to also note the disproportionate number of non-blacks in the NBA? Does it really matter? Or do some people make a life's work out of finding things to get mad about? Edited March 30, 2008 by Morgoth Bauglir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Godzilla! Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Does it really matter? Or do some people make a life's work out of finding things to get mad about? Interesting that this question would be asked on this forum, of all places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 To be honest, the activity has already changed to something I don't enjoy anymore. This is the first time I have been on this forum in probably 6 months. I have every top 12 corps and some 12- mp3s from 94-04, but after 04 there are maybe 5 shows total that I can stand listening to. I don't know why, but I just don't really find the new direction of drum corps to be something I like. There was a lot of talk a few years ago about how some people would leave drum corps if amps, singing, and electronics became the norm. Some doubted whether those people were serious about leaving. Well it became the norm, and I did leave. I didn't go to a single live show in 06 or 07. I went to the 07 theater broadcast and didn't really like it.The point of this being, if changing the activity is what some want to do, go for it. But the idea of alienating previous fans is very real. I honestly think that the idea that diversity is a goal in and of itself if one of the most corrosive and disastrous ideas in America. If people really want race to not matter, they need to stop making it matter. If people of many races like something, great. If they don't great. If only one race mostly likes it, great. If only one race mostly doesn't like it, great. It doesn't matter. Race should not be an issue. And bringing this stuff up just keeps making it an issue. Just let people enjoy what they enjoy. Drum corps has its foundations in military style formal "rigid" classical type music. A lot of people enjoy that. Who cares if it's "92% white?" People like what they like. There are other types of music that other races mostly enjoy. I'm not going to demand they change to accommodate me. I'm fine with thigns just flowing how they flow. Forcing changes that people don't like in order to bring some fabricated social construct into reality is the worst idea ever. It's OK to like or not like some of the same or different things. Did they happen to also note the disproportionate number of non-blacks in the NBA? Does it really matter? Or do some people make a life's work out of finding things to get mad about? Word. BUT, ...... I bet you would love what Phantom has done the past couple seasons, and Cavies, BD 06, Coats, and so on. I agree with your sentiment though. The race issue....it is funny that those who want to appear so high minded and superior about race issues are the ones who continue to bin people by race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Um...I'd try the 2000+ dollar tuition for the top units first before we start to deride "tradition".Couple that money with the fact that most music education/performance majors (aside from those at historically black colleges and universities) are, indeed, white...and, well, there you go. It is what it is, and no amount of tweaking the music, uniforms or "tradition" is going to make DCI or the Cadets (or any other corps) a pan-cultural paean to the world community. Tell you what, though, George: drop the fees down to about 250 dollars for a Cadets "Cadet" corps, go into inner city Philadelphia and get some kids together and give them some drum line equipment (get Yamaha, etc to donate it) and create a few lines to compete against each other regionally. There's your entry point into the multicultural world of today...which sounds suprisingly like the entry point many, many years ago people used to get kids off the street and into a little thing called drum corps. Funny, no? I won't hold my breath to see that happen, though. Very nice post, Bawker. You are right on with all your points. I do think GH is correct in his assumption that those things he mentions are some of the reasons we do not have a lot of diversity in drum corps. And I do agree that it is something that DCI needs to look into. But I feel your assessments are closer to the truth. Cost is a big part of it. How many musicians, period (regardless of class or race) can afford 2K to go to a summer music festival or to march with a drum corps? And with more high school students working to help their parents with college tuition, and with college students often working in the summer, we find that the pool of students who would be capable of this sort of thing to be limited. Another reason, as you clearly stated, is that not many black students go into music, at least not the traditional music major found at most Colleges and Universities where degrees supported and accredited by NASM are expected. This is not to say there are none, but their percentage of the population at most schools of music is very, very small. Only at traditional black colleges is this different, and often so is the degree and what is expected within that education (i.e. many of those schools are not NASM accredited). Most importantly, band music and orchestral music has never really been their desired listening and learning pleasure. Nothing wrong with that, and this is certainly no slam on anyone, but it is true. Drum and Bugle Corps does come out of a military tradition, and many of the uniforms to this day demonstrate that. The music comes out of the military style as well, with Sousa-like marches, brass band music, and patriotic/nationalistic music being very important to the activity (at least in the early days). Obviously, the music of today, in corps, is more sophisticated with more variety, but the complexity within it, and its roots in band, brass band, and the orchestral are still a turn off to many young people, and not just blacks. But then again, most young already have what they want: popular music and rock. Why should DCI and its corps join the team and contribute to an already large market filled with garage bands and Diva pop stars? Is it just for the money, or are we really providing an education? If it's the later, then I say that there are more than enough opportunities for young people to get involved in music, especially if it is popular- and rock-music that they desire. The extinction of one form of music making in order to fortify another, one that frankly does not need any more popularity, is idiotic. None of this is to say that getting students involved in the activity is a bad thing. ANY youngster who can benefit from a music education and an opportunity to perform can benefit from drum and bugle corps (just as they can from rock, jazz, band, etc.). But the point is to get them excited about all the new learning opportunities they can seek out. If we can do that, then super. And more diversity can really work. But at a time when QUALITY is at the forefront of drum corps (because it is competitive and because some amazing standards have been set) then it is unlikely any corps would really want to take the risk of bringing in kids who likely cannot play all that well, who have had little training, and who have perhaps never valued music and the artistry it takes to really make it matter. But if we could get these kids into feeder programs that provided all kinds of opportunity, especially those that many schools are not offering, then there is an area where drum corps could make big contributions to music education, and many of them would qualify for state and federal monies for offering such services. JW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveKathyG Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Why exactly are we concerned that the activity appeals to limited segments of the population? This isn't about fair access. I totally support the idea of Affirmative Action in employment, higher education, etc. But this isn't an issue of equity or access. The trick to anything is knowing who you are and doing what you do as well as you possibly can. It is simply misguided and dangerous to think that you have to be all things to all people. All this hand wringing is simply silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Did they happen to also note the disproportionate number of non-blacks in the NBA?Does it really matter? Or do some people make a life's work out of finding things to get mad about? From how I read the article, if the majority is white, it's a bad thing. If it's majority is black, no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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