Cymbal Lines

[AlbionNY Drum Line]

DCA is seeing a resurgence in cymbal lines lately

This year it looks like Buccs, Bush, Cabs (I'm assuming), Empire, MBI and Renegades will all have cymbals lines.

Edited May 13, 2008 by AlbionNY Drum Line

[cymbal_steve]

The DCA thing has gotten much better. Back in 96-99, my first DCA stint, very few lines were playing any notes at all. When I came back in 03, things had gotten much better, some lines were trying some good stuff.

[jbjb85]

Thanks!

If I feel like it, maybe tomorrow I'll go on my cymbal line rant.

Come on now, no teasing. You have to follow through if you make a statement like that. I don't think I'm the only one on here who wants to hear what you have to say. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

[cymbal_steve]

I don't know why you'd want to hear what I have to say, I'm just some guy who used to teach, but here's what I've got.

I think there is a reason that some people want cymbals to be banished to the pit. I think they haven't been exposed to a high level cymbal line. There are so many BAD cymbal lines out there, that I sometimes feel they should be banished too. There aren't enough people that know how to teach them properly, and the quality suffers. There are a lot of drum caption heads and writers that don't take the time to learn how to score for cymbals. The don't understand the different sounds that can come from the instrument. The only way cymbal lines are going to make a come back is if the guys in charge want them to. I know for a fact that there are plenty of world class drum guys that basically hate cymbals and are glad that they are gone. But that is a result of there not being enough people out there passing the art form down. Not enough young kids that want to take the instrument for there own. Too many kids want to start on cymbals and move to bass/tenor/snare. More kids need to want to be cymbal players, to explore the art form, to explore how much of a musician they can become on the instrument.

I also think some of the bad attitudes come from the whole visual thing. A good cymbal visual is what most people see. Just take a look at DCP. Whenever (most) people talk about who the best cymbal line is they say SCV. Because of their great technique? Consistent sound production? Use of timbers and rhythms? No, cause they look bad ###. Cause they do the viper(head chopper). Am I bashing SCV for looking bad ###, no way. One of the things that made me chose cymbals is they are the only instrument where you can get ticked for playing from the drum judge and a visual judge. No visual judge is going to call out a trumpet for fingerings not being the same. They could talk about the cymbals not being uniform on a crash. No visual judge is going to call out stick heights in the snare line(none that I know of anyway). The visual part of a cymbal line is a big deal, but it's not the end all be all. If you look at some of the early/mid 90's magic lines, they had a great visual presence, which included body, way a head of it's time. That's another thing that draws me to the instrument.

I'm VERY surprised that no one has taken advantage of the microphones to produce a cymbal moment. I know this is an indoor clip, and it's a different world, but here is a clip of an indoor unit that is no longer around that I used to teach/direct. Feel free to check out the whole clip, but the cymbal feature starts around 2:35.

Sorry this rant is long and unfocused. It does get me a little angry when people say that the instrument that made me a part of this drum and bugle corps community shouldn't exist. Every line that I've taught or been a part of, I wanted to be the best section of the corps, period. It almost makes that work seem diminished.

[southtxbones]

I also think some of the bad attitudes come from the whole visual thing. A good cymbal visual is what most people see. Just take a look at DCP. Whenever (most) people talk about who the best cymbal line is they say SCV. Because of their great technique? Consistent sound production? Use of timbers and rhythms? No, cause they look bad ###. Cause they do the viper(head chopper). Am I bashing SCV for looking bad ###, no way. One of the things that made me chose cymbals is they are the only instrument where you can get ticked for playing from the drum judge and a visual judge. No visual judge is going to call out a trumpet for fingerings not being the same. They could talk about the cymbals not being uniform on a crash. No visual judge is going to call out stick heights in the snare line(none that I know of anyway). The visual part of a cymbal line is a big deal, but it's not the end all be all. If you look at some of the early/mid 90's magic lines, they had a great visual presence, which included body, way a head of it's time. That's another thing that draws me to the instrument.

Sorta agree, thats why i'm not too big of an SCV cymbal fan, I am a fan or the corps, but don't see what the big deal is with the cymbal line.

I do understand that they're pretty much visual and the crowd, especially the kids, respond to it.

I guess thats what bothers me, that they're hyped up so much, but they only use 1 technique while playing (which isn't the best for sound quality, but theres no right or wrong way to play cymbals) , and stick to pretty much the same visuals. I will give them credit for precision and execution though. I guess its just what the crowd likes, kinda like the cowboys or yankees...america's teams but haven't won a championship in...how long?

gonna throw something else in there with that, i know the cavies won in 06, but i still have the same argument with them. The crowd goes wild during the visual segments, which i also don't understand because they're not difficult, I mean....I'm laying down right now, its not that hard to do. I also think when an audience member sees something out of the norm, instead of just marching and playing, their first reaction is to go crazy. Which i'll admit i've done as an audience member before.

like I said I guess its just a personal preference, some people don't get too technical about it and just like a good show. I really appreciate something thats really difficult to do and when its pulled off successfully.

Been wanting to say this for a very long time on dcp, but didn't want to get superflamed on it....but then again, its only dcp.

EDIT: For people who say cymbal lines are useless, watch academy's show last year and picture it without a cymbal line.....impossible. Their drill practically revolved around the cymbals. They had great drill, technique, and visuals.

And for the people who miss Glassmen's cymbal line...Crossmen's line last year threw in some old school glassmen technique during their show and will continue to this year.

Edited May 14, 2008 by southtxbones

[josh161]

In open class, check out the spartans 07. The Dvd really shows alot of the good visual things you can do there. THey were a real great section that came a LONG way that season.

[Cuban]

Sorta agree, thats why i'm not too big of an SCV cymbal fan, I am a fan or the corps, but don't see what the big deal is with the cymbal line.

I do understand that they're pretty much visual and the crowd, especially the kids, respond to it.

I guess thats what bothers me, that they're hyped up so much, but they only use 1 technique while playing (which isn't the best for sound quality, but theres no right or wrong way to play cymbals) , and stick to pretty much the same visuals. I will give them credit for precision and execution though. I guess its just what the crowd likes, kinda like the cowboys or yankees...america's teams but haven't won a championship in...how long?

EDIT: For people who say cymbal lines are useless, watch academy's show last year and picture it without a cymbal line.....impossible. Their drill practically revolved around the cymbals. They had great drill, technique, and visuals.

Funny you mention Academy. They are taught by a former SCV Cymbal Player, and use the exact same approach and technique Vanguard uses.

I respect the SCV cymbal line for exactly what you disagreed with them on. (Speaking of, how is there technique not the best for sound quality? Who decided what was best for sound quality, and what technique would that be?)

They are consistently one of the cleanest sections in the activity, and while they may recycle things, they have more identity and history than any other plate line this far. And when the same guy is heading it for 15+ years, of course its going to look virtually the same year after year.

If most people reply that "SCV Has the best plate line" every year, they must be doing a lot of things right.

P.S. Check out spirit this summer. Rebuilding a program, and hopefully back on track soon.

[Perry S]

Funny you mention Academy. They are taught by a former SCV Cymbal Player, and use the exact same approach and technique Vanguard uses.

I respect the SCV cymbal line for exactly what you disagreed with them on. (Speaking of, how is there technique not the best for sound quality? Who decided what was best for sound quality, and what technique would that be?)

They are consistently one of the cleanest sections in the activity, and while they may recycle things, they have more identity and history than any other plate line this far. And when the same guy is heading it for 15+ years, of course its going to look virtually the same year after year.

If most people reply that "SCV Has the best plate line" every year, they must be doing a lot of things right.

P.S. Check out spirit this summer. Rebuilding a program, and hopefully back on track soon.

THE TRUTH!!!

[cymbal_steve]

I guess thats what bothers me, that they're hyped up so much, but they only use 1 technique while playing (which isn't the best for sound quality, but theres no right or wrong way to play cymbals) , and stick to pretty much the same visuals. I will give them credit for precision and execution though. I guess its just what the crowd likes, kinda like the cowboys or yankees...america's teams but haven't won a championship in...how long?

If I could disagree on something for a second. There is absolutly a wrong way to play cymbals. I'm not saying that any corps are playing them wrong, but there are some people that don't teach a proper flam to produce a good sound.

[rut-roh]

If most people reply that "SCV Has the best plate line" every year, they must be doing a lot of things right.

Mmmm, not necessarily. It might just mean they are the line that gets the most attention and are the most popular. Style over substance, in other words. Not to say they were awful or anything, just sayin. A lot of people in the 90's might have told you that the Madison Scouts were the best drum corps every year, and they were indeed very good, extremely popular and entertaining. But I can think of some drum corps who were consistently just...better, from a performance quality standpoint. Does it make people who like Madison (or SCV's plate line) wrong for liking them? No. Again, just sayin.