arno0940 Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I think the corps with the most potential is SCV and Cadets. Both have farily dirty shows still and have a few weeks to clean and move up. BD are too clean for this time of year (if that is possible?!!?!) It will be interesting to see what they do to keep getting better. Phantom and Crown are also pretty clean (visually at least)....I think it is going to be a race til finals. BD have quiet a lead right now and I think it will close up a bit by next weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 (edited) I had all four corps in the final order after watching it on the FN. BK over Boston mainly because of a very rough BAC brass performance in terms of blending and tone.Crown was over Phantom because of only a few areas, mainly brass. However I was less certain of this because I felt that Phantom had really strengthened their GE. I gave the slight edge to BK over BAC last night principally due to guard performance, not brass performance. And from looking at the recaps, the judges seemed to concur with this assessment as well. DCI has evolved where the thing that can hurt you the most is not brass and percussion..... but guard. Guard is such an integral part of the visual shows these days that a sub par guard will send you tumbling. And conversely, a great guard can seal the deal visually in the visual ensemble caption and the color guard caption..... and likewise placement wise. anyone else notice notice how the guards are getting larger in the number of performers in Corps compared to earlier eras ? Edited July 20, 2008 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastyWaves Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Just a question.......how do you feel about the Cavalier/Blue Devil spread? Will Cavs gain on BD before finals? I know alot of people (including myself) were very excited about this, but it can be a curse too. It gives a lower "Cieling" for improvement and growth. If the Devs are complete, and as clean as they are going to get (which i hear is not the case from a former student marching..), they will be improving .2-.4 per night, while others can improve .5-1.0 or more per night. I cant wait to see how this one shakes out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohanico Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I know alot of people (including myself) were very excited about this, but it can be a curse too. It gives a lower "Cieling" for improvement and growth. If the Devs are complete, and as clean as they are going to get (which i hear is not the case from a former student marching..), they will be improving .2-.4 per night, while others can improve .5-1.0 or more per night.I cant wait to see how this one shakes out! I'm not quite sure where you get your figures to make that claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vferrera Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I'm not quite sure where you get your figures to make that claim. 0.2 to 0.4 is about right. There are 21 nights left in the 2008 season and they are 8.625 from a perfect score. Therefore, the maximum avg improvement is 0.41 pts/night. World Class corps improve by 0.3 to 0.4 pts/night averaged over the entire season. That's based on taking the total improvement and dividing by the number of nights using data from 2006 and 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodigal bari Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 (edited) I gave the slight edge to BK over BAC last night principally due to guard performance, not brass performance. And from looking at the recaps, the judges seemed to concur with this assessment as well.DCI has evolved where the thing that can hurt you the most is not brass and percussion..... but guard. Guard is such an integral part of the visual shows these days that a sub par guard will send you tumbling. And conversely, a great guard can seal the deal visually in the visual ensemble caption and the color guard caption..... and likewise placement wise. anyone else notice notice how the guards are getting larger in the number of performers in Corps compared to earlier eras ? A lot of this has something to do with the abundance of guard specialists judging the Visual GE and Performance captions...it is almost out of balance with judges with a musical background. I find this to be a problem in that the demand and excellence of the visual book by the brass and percussion (which, quite frenkly, should be predominant, IMO; this is a musical activity primairily) has become secondary to the guard ('visual ensemble'...isn't the brass and percussion 2/3rds of this so-called-ensemble???); and can carry a disproportionate percentage of the evaluation. (This has also occured in the band activity as well....is WGI becoming the 500-lb. gorilla in the house?) Therefore, the numbers are being added in the guard rather than balanced throughout the entire corps. And I also believe (da## you, George Hopkins...another phrase stolen from us! ) that there is some bleed-over into overall GE captions as well. I am not a huge fan of today's judging fraternity; they have become overly influenced by the guard activity and have carried over their overly-progressive approach to programing and design to their judging tolerances. If a corps (like Garfield did one year) decided for a huge horn line and a smaller guard for a specific show, they could not even count on making finals; much less winning. That is also the reason why we had gone thru a phase of the cookie-cutter wind ensemble and WGI-based esoteric shows in the past decade the corps are fighting to find a way out of. Judging should be opinion...but opinion based on performance and functionality of design; not personal preference. Edited July 20, 2008 by prodigal bari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 (edited) A lot of this has something to do with the abundance of guard specialists judging the Visual GE and Performance captions...it is almost out of balance with judges with a musical background. I find this to be a problem in that the demand and excellence of the visual book by the brass and percussion (which, quite frenkly, should be predominant, IMO; this is a musical activity primairily) has become secondary to the guard ('visual ensemble'...isn't the brass and percussion 2/3rds of this so-called-ensemble???); and can carry a disproportionate percentage of the evaluation. (This has also occured in the band activity as well....is WGI becoming the 500-lb. gorilla in the house?)Therefore, the numbers are being added in the guard rather than balanced throughout the entire corps. And I also believe (da## you, George Hopkins...another phrase stolen from us! ) that there is some bleed-over into overall GE captions as well. I am not a huge fan of today's judging fraternity; they have become overly influenced by the guard activity and have carried over their overly-progressive approach to programing and design to their judging tolerances. If a corps (like Garfield did one year) decided for a huge horn line and a smaller guard for a specific show, they could not even count on making finals; much less winning. That is also the reason why we had gone thru a phase of the cookie-cutter wind ensemble and WGI-based esoteric shows in the past decade the corps are fighting to find a way out of. Judging should be opinion...but opinion based on performance and functionality of design; not personal preference. This was an incisive, and thought provoking reply as to the perceived emergence of guard and the diminuation over time ( it appears ) of the brass and percussion predominance in the judging format, and the personnel in this field that are emerging..... and consequently, the shows. cogent and superb insight I thought, prodigal bari. Thanks for that. Edited July 20, 2008 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps-mudgeon Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 (edited) A lot of this has something to do with the abundance of guard specialists judging the Visual GE and Performance captions...it is almost out of balance with judges with a musical background. I find this to be a problem in that the demand and excellence of the visual book by the brass and percussion (which, quite frenkly, should be predominant, IMO; this is a musical activity primairily) has become secondary to the guard ('visual ensemble'...isn't the brass and percussion 2/3rds of this so-called-ensemble???); and can carry a disproportionate percentage of the evaluation. (This has also occured in the band activity as well....is WGI becoming the 500-lb. gorilla in the house?)Therefore, the numbers are being added in the guard rather than balanced throughout the entire corps. And I also believe (da## you, George Hopkins...another phrase stolen from us! ) that there is some bleed-over into overall GE captions as well. I am not a huge fan of today's judging fraternity; they have become overly influenced by the guard activity and have carried over their overly-progressive approach to programing and design to their judging tolerances. If a corps (like Garfield did one year) decided for a huge horn line and a smaller guard for a specific show, they could not even count on making finals; much less winning. That is also the reason why we had gone thru a phase of the cookie-cutter wind ensemble and WGI-based esoteric shows in the past decade the corps are fighting to find a way out of. Judging should be opinion...but opinion based on performance and functionality of design; not personal preference. Brilliant post. I am dispirited by the preeminence of guard-related factors as driving forces in show design. It's hard enough to say "drum and bugle corps" in the face of recent and programed changes in instrumentation, but with "guard" -- or should I say dance ensemble -- becoming the face of drum corps, the name seems irrelevant. Edit: Removed references to specific corps to keep the discussion on a more philosophical plane. Edited July 20, 2008 by corps-mudgeon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tsar Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 A lot of this has something to do with the abundance of guard specialists judging the Visual GE and Performance captions...it is almost out of balance with judges with a musical background. I find this to be a problem in that the demand and excellence of the visual book by the brass and percussion (which, quite frenkly, should be predominant, IMO; this is a musical activity primairily) has become secondary to the guard ('visual ensemble'...isn't the brass and percussion 2/3rds of this so-called-ensemble???); and can carry a disproportionate percentage of the evaluation. (This has also occured in the band activity as well....is WGI becoming the 500-lb. gorilla in the house?)Therefore, the numbers are being added in the guard rather than balanced throughout the entire corps. And I also believe (da## you, George Hopkins...another phrase stolen from us! ) that there is some bleed-over into overall GE captions as well. I am not a huge fan of today's judging fraternity; they have become overly influenced by the guard activity and have carried over their overly-progressive approach to programing and design to their judging tolerances. If a corps (like Garfield did one year) decided for a huge horn line and a smaller guard for a specific show, they could not even count on making finals; much less winning. That is also the reason why we had gone thru a phase of the cookie-cutter wind ensemble and WGI-based esoteric shows in the past decade the corps are fighting to find a way out of. Judging should be opinion...but opinion based on performance and functionality of design; not personal preference. I've been complaining about this for years. In fact, a couple of weeks ago I posted a list of visual judges and asked how many of them came from a color guard background, and no one wanted to discuss it. Here it is again: http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...t&p=2298448 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brians Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 felt Blue Stars would have been much closer to BK and BAC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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