Why aren't there more feeder corps?

[ssgt94]

Ultimately, as many others have already pointed out, the need for community involvement and participation is what enables feeder Corps to exist and thrive. For any of you who are really interested in how this works back in Concord, listen to the Field Pass interview with Rick Odello; he pretty much explains how and why the BDB and BDC Corps have continued to thrive for the last two decades.

The Concord community has a lot of old vets, supporters, fans, etc. As a direct result, there is a pool of local talent from which to recruit new members and generate interest. In fact, one of the primary reasons we have shows like Precision West, Pacific Procession, Stockton, etc., is to generate local interest. And I've personally witnessed that interest peak and result in large numbers of local kids coming out just to have fun in the BDB and BDC Corps. Yeah, a lot of them want to join the A Corps someday, but the highly dedicated staff of the BDB and BDC Corps are unbelievably dedicated to helping the kids enjoy the hell out of their experience. Do they want them to eventually become good enough to join the A Corps -sure; but is that the primary driver - no. Rick Odello and his entourage of highly dedicated instructors (many of them veterans of the A Corps, not to mention the A Corps staff which dedicate their time to the other Corps when they can) ensure that the kids enjoy the experience and are encouraged to stick with it.

During my years with the Corps, not a lot of the BDC and BDB kids made it up to the A Corps, but a sizable number did manage to break through. And most of those, I can say, turned out to be incredible performers, e.g. Jim Roscoe, Chris Barnes, Mike Busbee, JJ and Jerry Ridgway, etc., etc. Never underestimate the drive a feeder Corps can instill in a child who possesses the raw talent and desire.

Now, the important part to mention about the BDB and BDC Corps' success is the management aspect. The Blue Devil organization believes very heavily in the future of all its organizations and therefore support them substantially. Not only that, Rick Odello demands that the parents take an extremely active role in their child's participation in the activity - that kind of support cannot be underestimated. In fact, that may be one of the primary reasons for BDB's and BDC's continued success.

I lived in the Concord region during my years with the Corps, as well as several thereafter. The region is not particularly unique with regards to well-publicized community support for the program and its participants. The secret lies almost entirely with the ingenious management instituted and overseen by Dave Gibbs (I would be remiss not to mention Jerry Seawright's visionary design and dedication for this structure), Rick Odello, and many other members of the BD Organization. It can happen elsewhere (and does down in Santa Clara for the same reasons). I know that in the past both Jerry Seawright and Dave Gibbs have offered management models for consumption by the larger Drum Corps community. Hopefully, the success of programs such as BD and SCV can and will be emulated by some highly motivated veterans. I won't sugarcoat it, it takes an enormous amount of dedication. But, just like the successful Colt Cadets, Blue Star Cadets, etc., it can be done with the unflinching support of a few courageous souls, that is, with a little bit of management know-how. IMHO

Edited July 23, 2008 by ssgt94

[GGarrett]

Aside from all the above, I think it also has to do with just what kids are doing these days as opposed to what was available to do back when "feeder" or cadet corps were so prevalent. Back in the day, big brother or sister might be in the "big kids" corps, and mom and dad had to figure out a way to keep little brother or sister happy even though they weren't yet old enough to be in big brother or sisters corps.

Now days moms and dads want their kids to "not be deprived of any opportunity" or to be involved in every possible thing made available to them. They run their kids from Little League to soccer to football to cheerleading, etc etc.... and that's just on Monday night alone!

AND, IMO... moms and dads now keep their kids close to home and not involved in any activity where they might be pushed too hard or told they need practice, because that could damage precious childs fragile sensitivity and creative ability. Not to mention that many parents just don't trust anyone with their kids now days given the number of rotten things we've seen over the years in news stories. The young parents across the street from me won't let their kid ride her big wheel away from the driveway because they (her especially) live in some fear factory of the mind that says someone will drive up and take their child away, and I'm being serious! I've talked with her about it! Sadly, they don't see that what they ARE doing is creating a little basket case child who will grow up not being able to go anywhere someday...

Edited July 23, 2008 by GGarrett

[neholgate]

The real cost is tour. Blue Star Cadets don't tour, the perform in their local community and provide a training ground for possible future Blue Star members. I don't think (I am not in the know), it's an expensive/draining project.

I have huge respect for Colts, BD and SCV for keeping their feeder units alive and touring. I don't know how those corps are run, but from their presentations have been fantastic

I don't think the Squires (VK's feeder way back when) ever toured. No need, it's not the purpose of having the corps the purpose back then was to have a music program for young youth 8-12 years old that would, hopefully, become members of the older corps.

Like the Blue Star Cadets they did local parades, standstills and winter guard. Many of the talent from the VK grew up directly from the Squires. Staffing for the Squires was quite small too. The Squires didn't have perfect matching horns, they had the older corps hand-me-downs. Saved quite a bit of money.

Also, if your corps is with a scouting program and believes in mentorship then you can have older members helping teach the younger corps when time allows. The little kids eat it up, the older corps members build confidence and leadership skills.

Nancy

Edited July 23, 2008 by neholgate

[afd]

I don't consider these corps...BDB or SCV Cadets feeder corps. They are corps standing on their own. I live in the Bay Area and these corps are more involved in community events, local parades than their bigger brothers. They are the face of the organizations they represent in more ways than the A corps.

[ssgt94]

I don't consider these corps...BDB or SCV Cadets feeder corps. They are corps standing on their own. I live in the Bay Area and these corps are more involved in community events, local parades than their bigger brothers. They are the face of the organizations they represent in more ways than the A corps.

I fully agree! However, I believe that the term "feeder Corps" is anachronistic. IMHO, a "feeder Corps" can now be described as one which performs locally, recruits locally, and represents the local "face" of the World Class Corps. As a meaningful part, if not the core, of the World Class organization, some kids may move up into the World Class Corps, as well as the fact that the "feeder Corps" may be supported by veterans and staff of the World Class Corps, but this doesn't take away the fact that it serves as the primary resource for publicizing the overall Organization's mission in their home community.

I'm as thrilled as any BD Veteran that the BDB and BDC have fully embraced their own character and destiny. As a member of the family, I couldn't be prouder. But, as any Blue Devil will tell you (and I'm sure this goes for SCV as well), we're all part of the same family and therefore support one another unconditionally. Based upon my experiences performing side by side with both Corps over the years, our younger brothers and sisters probably don't mind being referred to as a "feeder Corps." They should, perhaps, be referred to as something else, but I'm sure they're proud as hell to just be referred to as Blue Devils (A, B, or C notwithstanding).

God do I miss Family Day!

[#1PhantomPhan]

Ultimately, as many others have already pointed out, the need for community involvement and participation is what enables feeder Corps to exist and thrive. For any of you who are really interested in how this works back in Concord, listen to the Field Pass interview with Rick Odello; he pretty much explains how and why the BDB and BDC Corps have continued to thrive for the last two decades.

The Concord community has a lot of old vets, supporters, fans, etc. As a direct result, there is a pool of local talent from which to recruit new members and generate interest. In fact, one of the primary reasons we have shows like Precision West, Pacific Procession, Stockton, etc., is to generate local interest. And I've personally witnessed that interest peak and result in large numbers of local kids coming out just to have fun in the BDB and BDC Corps. Yeah, a lot of them want to join the A Corps someday, but the highly dedicated staff of the BDB and BDC Corps are unbelievably dedicated to helping the kids enjoy the hell out of their experience. Do they want them to eventually become good enough to join the A Corps -sure; but is that the primary driver - no. Rick Odello and his entourage of highly dedicated instructors (many of them veterans of the A Corps, not to mention the A Corps staff which dedicate their time to the other Corps when they can) ensure that the kids enjoy the experience and are encouraged to stick with it.

During my years with the Corps, not a lot of the BDC and BDB kids made it up to the A Corps, but a sizable number did manage to break through. And most of those, I can say, turned out to be incredible performers, e.g. Jim Roscoe, Chris Barnes, Mike Busbee, JJ and Jerry Ridgway, etc., etc. Never underestimate the drive a feeder Corps can instill in a child who possesses the raw talent and desire.

Now, the important part to mention about the BDB and BDC Corps' success is the management aspect. The Blue Devil organization believes very heavily in the future of all its organizations and therefore support them substantially. Not only that, Rick Odello demands that the parents take an extremely active role in their child's participation in the activity - that kind of support cannot be underestimated. In fact, that may be one of the primary reasons for BDB's and BDC's continued success.

I lived in the Concord region during my years with the Corps, as well as several thereafter. The region is not particularly unique with regards to well-publicized community support for the program and its participants. The secret lies almost entirely with the ingenious management instituted and overseen by Dave Gibbs (I would be remiss not to mention Jerry Seawright's visionary design and dedication for this structure), Rick Odello, and many other members of the BD Organization. It can happen elsewhere (and does down in Santa Clara for the same reasons). I know that in the past both Jerry Seawright and Dave Gibbs have offered management models for consumption by the larger Drum Corps community. Hopefully, the success of programs such as BD and SCV can and will be emulated by some highly motivated veterans. I won't sugarcoat it, it takes an enormous amount of dedication. But, just like the successful Colt Cadets, Blue Star Cadets, etc., it can be done with the unflinching support of a few courageous souls, that is, with a little bit of management know-how. IMHO

I grew up and lived in Concord for 26 years. I attended high school and participated in band in high school. As much as BD was apart of my family, (oldest sister marched in 90) I was very dissapointed in the fact that many of the BD kids that attended our school had the attitude that playing in the high school band was beneath them. Yes. It happend. As I am sure it happens across the country in other schools in other states. It just made me sad. Talented kids should be taught not just to support their corps, but to also support their community. With the sad state of affairs that music programs are in now a days, such support would be helpful, to say the least.

I have been reading this post for a day or so now... and I just keep agreeing with one poster that said that most kids want to play with the big boys or not at all. SCV Cadets and BDB, IMHO, retain their numbers due to the idea that maybe by marching the "feeder" corps, they will make it into the big game. While corps like Mandarins and Pioneer struggle to maintain enough numbers to march Div1. There are so many kids out there that are not marching, just because these aren't the top 12 corps. And that, my friends, is a tragedy.

[AzEuph]

Tony,

I agree with your post about the media age! I taught with somebody who was a great drummer. He auditioned at SCV for 2 years (04,05) and Cavies (07). Both times he made it pretty far before getting cut and was always frustrated and gave up. I told him to march a lower corps, and he felt that he was too good for a lower corps.

When I marched Santa Clara, a lot of those guys marched on Fevers drumline, or Impulse! People should realize that any drum corps experience will be the same, and that any experience will help you come auditions. I truly feel that some of these big boy corps like people who have experience anywhere! It shows them that yeah you can survive a summer! But unfortunately too few people think this way.

I tell any of my students interested in marching, especially drummers, to march anywere...world or open, it's the experience!

[TastyWaves]

Tony,

I agree with your post about the media age! I taught with somebody who was a great drummer. He auditioned at SCV for 2 years (04,05) and Cavies (07). Both times he made it pretty far before getting cut and was always frustrated and gave up. I told him to march a lower corps, and he felt that he was too good for a lower corps.

When I marched Santa Clara, a lot of those guys marched on Fevers drumline, or Impulse! People should realize that any drum corps experience will be the same, and that any experience will help you come auditions. I truly feel that some of these big boy corps like people who have experience anywhere! It shows them that yeah you can survive a summer! But unfortunately too few people think this way.

I tell any of my students interested in marching, especially drummers, to march anywere...world or open, it's the experience!

ABsolutely!

I remember when i was in my first year ever drumming (1992), our percussion captains both went to audition for drum corps. Here were two guys, snare drummers in one of the better bands and drumlines in So Cal, and they went in and took ANY spot they could get.

I think that used to be more normal. Go in, take ANY Spot you can get and get your foot in the door and then try to move the next year.

But now its "(top 5 corps name) or nothing", AND "Snare/quads or nothing" for alot of these yuong players.

Like i said with the Media,

Alot of kids learn to "mimick" the beats they hear and start playing along with the tracks. So after awhile, they are just convinced that they can hang with the best. Its frustrating to see them picking things apart when you know they dont understand movement, or technique, not to mention that 99% of those kids on youtube have never drummed with more than 2 or 3 other people...lol.

You can see them posting video of themselves playing a BD lick or a Phantom lick, thinking they are "all that", then a million others just like them post a series of critiques and the usually the online arguing ensues. lol.. its actually pretty comical.

But then like someone said,

here we have some great potential programs, and even some World Class touring corps that cant keep thier ranks full.

It made me very proud that a former student of mine Marched Winter Percussion for an Independent Open Class group, hated it, then still kept at it.

He went to crossmen, made it (during the last year on the east coast) then was heartbroken not to make the cut for the next year. But he owned up to it, and kept at it, then traveled to Casper to march with the troop for a year, and now he is in that wonderful percussion section of Carolina Crown.

I had another young person who marched with us in a tiny Div 3 corps based out of jersey. He was 1 of 9 horn players we toured with in 2003. He marched every step like he loved it and played every note all out, ran back to every set all summer. The next year, he stayed with us until we folded, then we got him out to Surf mid summer and he owned it there for two years. Now, he is in his second year with the Blue Devils.

I have 10 other stories like this that stemmed from that little div 3 corps that failed to make it becasue we couldnt fill the hornline. The kids that did stay, all made it bigger and better. We had kids win DCI world Championships several times, a few DCA champions, a few High percussion/guard winners in both circuits as well.

Ihope more of yuong people follow that example, but im not optimistic about it on the large scale.

A few kids are won over by some of these great organizations, but most will amount to little more than a whiney, superior, opinionated voice on DCP who when you ask "Where did you march"> they say "oh... well, i never really did it.. i mean i went to a few camps.. but .... uh... well, i had a job.. and i was too good for _______". etc.

[kansasDC]

I grew up and lived in Concord for 26 years. I attended high school and participated in band in high school. As much as BD was apart of my family, (oldest sister marched in 90) I was very dissapointed in the fact that many of the BD kids that attended our school had the attitude that playing in the high school band was beneath them. Yes. It happend. As I am sure it happens across the country in other schools in other states. It just made me sad. Talented kids should be taught not just to support their corps, but to also support their community. With the sad state of affairs that music programs are in now a days, such support would be helpful, to say the least.

I have been reading this post for a day or so now... and I just keep agreeing with one poster that said that most kids want to play with the big boys or not at all. SCV Cadets and BDB, IMHO, retain their numbers due to the idea that maybe by marching the "feeder" corps, they will make it into the big game. While corps like Mandarins and Pioneer struggle to maintain enough numbers to march Div1. There are so many kids out there that are not marching, just because these aren't the top 12 corps. And that, my friends, is a tragedy.

I think the situation you mention of corps kids feeling they are too good for their local band programs must be more unique to that area. I know that virtually all of the HS age members of Blue Stars march in their local HS band program. And most seem to show alot of pride in their bands. My son wll be the drum major for his HS band this year and next and, although it is not a strong competitive program like the Indiana bands, etc., he still shows pride in his band and tries to pass on the basic things he has learned in corps, like posture, step style, etc., to the other band members.

[84BDsop]

Go in, take ANY Spot you can get and get your foot in the door and then try to move the next year.

But now its "(top 5 corps name) or nothing", AND "Snare/quads or nothing" for alot of these yuong players.

That's not entirely a new thing....when I was in USAF tech school in 85, the student corps center snare told be he'd tried out for snare for Spirit for the 84 season....didn't make it, but was offered a spot in the cymbal line. He wanted a snare spot, so he declined and never marched (would've been a rook-out like me).

After hearing my tour stories, he told me not accepting the plate spot was a major regret.