Can Anybody Beat the Bucs?

[TrishDish1002]

Mine too :)

The 2001 Brigs, as good as they were, didn't exactly "bury" the Buccaneers that year.

My fave Brigs corps of their great run was the 2002 corps. Unbelievable.

Fran

[Jeff Ream]

I would argue with you about the 2002 Brigs drumline, at least.

i'm talking the total run. brass wise i'd put 05 Bucs against any of the Brigs lines IMO if you're going to look at it that way

[dolphin6704]

The Bucs work harder all year. That's it.

Their drill and music are in line or more difficult than most of their competition. Their high level of skill and execution are what might make it appear simpler, but that is the trick.

Are they beatable? Not from what I have seen but this is DCA, anything can happen.

The similarities to the Brigs of old are much fewer than you think. It was a completely different business model and why I would agree with Tom about the talent level.

Flame away.

It is not legitimate or fair to any drum corps to say that Bucs work harder. You can say that they may have a better product, talent or what have you, I do not necessarily agree at times, but to say that other drum corps do not work as hard is not a fair accusation. I myself work just as hard and am insulted by that comment. Many others should also. IMO!

[Jeff Ream]

The 2001 Brigs, as good as they were, didn't exactly "bury" the Buccaneers that year.

My fave Brigs corps of their great run was the 2002 corps. Unbelievable.

Fran

in fact, the percussion caption called the show. the current teams first year started rough, imrpoved a lot, but didnt quite get there

[Jeff Ream]

It is not legitimate or fair to any drum corps to say that Bucs work harder. You can say that they may have a better product, talent or what have you, I do not necessarily agree at times, but to say that other drum corps do not work as hard is not a fair accusation. I myself work just as hard and am insulted by that comment. Many others should also. IMO!

agreed. a better phrase may be they work smarter, going back to the day the pick the show

[VOReason]

You can say that they may have a better product, talent or what have you, I do not necessarily agree at times..

You do not necessarily agree that the Bucs have a better product or talent level? Really?? Gotta tell 'ya, you're likely in the minority there....

[Dale Bari]

The Bucs work harder all year. That's it.

Their drill and music are in line or more difficult than most of their competition. Their high level of skill and execution are what might make it appear simpler, but that is the trick.

With the caveat "Unless things have changed from the beginning of '05 until now"...

I would say that Bucs drill would equal or top any others. But not the music, at least based upon what I was given in all the brass lines I've stood in. Even 00-01 Cru was harder. As for talent level, the best brass line I've ever been in was '03 Brigs, even though I've been in more balanced lines from the top talent to the bottom.

Bucs practice a lot more than the other corps I've experienced, but their membership is more local than those other corps', so they can expect that. They need that time because of the "inefficiency" their communication style requires. However, the staff there communicates much more information much more usefully to the members. As a result, the corps can clean its program to a much higher degree than any other corps I've seen. Other corps do more running; Bucs do more listening. So, their "down" time is higher, but their result is better.

Therefore, in terms of average effort per minute, Bucs is not the highest I've seen. In terms of average result per minute even, they might not be the best, but with the total minutes they put in, the final result is what counts, and they've been the best for the last several years, 2008 inclusive.

Talent in the staff can overcome lack of talent in the membership. After all, aren't many people here from the day when everyone was taught by rote? People who didn't know a lick of music theory won championships. How? Better teachers taught them than who taught the competition.

Preparation is key, as many people here have mentioned, and all will agree that the Bucs come prepared. It's not a matter of who worked harder or whose program is the hardest. "Hard/er/est" doesn't win. "Most talented" doesn't even win. "Prepared" wins. "Prepared" means the design is top-notch and finalized, the teachers and teaching program are in place, the members are aware of their responsibilities and well-rehearsed in their tasks.

[Brigscontrachik05]

With the caveat "Unless things have changed from the beginning of '05 until now"...

I would say that Bucs drill would equal or top any others. But not the music, at least based upon what I was given in all the brass lines I've stood in. Even 00-01 Cru was harder. As for talent level, the best brass line I've ever been in was '03 Brigs, even though I've been in more balanced lines from the top talent to the bottom.

Bucs practice a lot more than the other corps I've experienced, but their membership is more local than those other corps', so they can expect that. They need that time because of the "inefficiency" their communication style requires. However, the staff there communicates much more information much more usefully to the members. As a result, the corps can clean its program to a much higher degree than any other corps I've seen. Other corps do more running; Bucs do more listening. So, their "down" time is higher, but their result is better.

Therefore, in terms of average effort per minute, Bucs is not the highest I've seen. In terms of average result per minute even, they might not be the best, but with the total minutes they put in, the final result is what counts, and they've been the best for the last several years, 2008 inclusive.

Talent in the staff can overcome lack of talent in the membership. After all, aren't many people here from the day when everyone was taught by rote? People who didn't know a lick of music theory won championships. How? Better teachers taught them than who taught the competition.

Preparation is key, as many people here have mentioned, and all will agree that the Bucs come prepared. It's not a matter of who worked harder or whose program is the hardest. "Hard/er/est" doesn't win. "Most talented" doesn't even win. "Prepared" wins. "Prepared" means the design is top-notch and finalized, the teachers and teaching program are in place, the members are aware of their responsibilities and well-rehearsed in their tasks.

[Dale Bari]

The 2001 Brigs, as good as they were, didn't exactly "bury" the Buccaneers that year.

The 2001 DCA Finals featured two fine corps, with completely different strengths. I loved telling each group my view of the 2001 Finals (and listening to them try to counter me).

If Bucs'd had 20 more brass, they'd have trampled the Brigs. The Bucs' show had much more nuance and expression to it. The Brigs were much more powerful and talented than the Bucs; they just plain overpowered the Bucs. The Bucs were "David" to the Brigs' "Goliath". Only, "Goliath" was too strong for "David" that time. The Bucs also benefited from the "Anybody But Brigs" sentiment that had already taken hold. Other than that, no one else could/did come so close to the Brigs during their '99-'02 run.

As compared to Bucs '05-'08, it's a tougher call. From '99 to '02, the second/third/fourth place corps were: Bucs/Statesmen/MBI, Cabs/Bucs/Statesmen, Bucs/Cabs/Statesmen, and Statesmen/Bucs/MBI - 4 different corps. From '05 to '08, it was(is) Statesmen/Bush/Brigs, Statesmen/Bush/Cabs, Cabs/Statesmen/Bush, and Hurcs/Cabs/Statesmen - 5 different corps. If a champion's quality can be determined by the quality of its competition, then maybe Brigs win by an eyelash, just because they had to fend off a slightly tighter field over the years.

Yes, their models are way different. I think the Brigs were the more exceptional corps because what they did was so unexpected. From 1997 until 2004, that corps never placed lower than 2nd. That's 8 seasons, after only being in existence for 6 years prior. Don't forget, before their first title, Brigs' best finish was 6th. No one had ever seen a four-peat in DCA before. Bucs just completed their 50th anniversary season, had won DCA 4 times prior, and, before winning in 2005, had been not lower than 5th in the prior 7 seasons.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Dale Bari

[ContraRich77]

With the caveat "Unless things have changed from the beginning of '05 until now"...

I would say that Bucs drill would equal or top any others. But not the music, at least based upon what I was given in all the brass lines I've stood in. Even 00-01 Cru was harder. As for talent level, the best brass line I've ever been in was '03 Brigs, even though I've been in more balanced lines from the top talent to the bottom.

Bucs practice a lot more than the other corps I've experienced, but their membership is more local than those other corps', so they can expect that. They need that time because of the "inefficiency" their communication style requires. However, the staff there communicates much more information much more usefully to the members. As a result, the corps can clean its program to a much higher degree than any other corps I've seen. Other corps do more running; Bucs do more listening. So, their "down" time is higher, but their result is better.

Therefore, in terms of average effort per minute, Bucs is not the highest I've seen. In terms of average result per minute even, they might not be the best, but with the total minutes they put in, the final result is what counts, and they've been the best for the last several years, 2008 inclusive.

Talent in the staff can overcome lack of talent in the membership. After all, aren't many people here from the day when everyone was taught by rote? People who didn't know a lick of music theory won championships. How? Better teachers taught them than who taught the competition.

Preparation is key, as many people here have mentioned, and all will agree that the Bucs come prepared. It's not a matter of who worked harder or whose program is the hardest. "Hard/er/est" doesn't win. "Most talented" doesn't even win. "Prepared" wins. "Prepared" means the design is top-notch and finalized, the teachers and teaching program are in place, the members are aware of their responsibilities and well-rehearsed in their tasks.