Keith Laubhan Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 More or less exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you for being more literate than me. I don't know if you can commend me for that when I use the word "douchenozzle" in my statement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuonela Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Sorry, one more thing... (or two I guess) I believe that this "artsy", and dare I say "stubborn", attitude is precisely the mindset which has limited BKs progress over the last decade. And I hope it changes soon. I still don't get how you are defining "progress". Placement-wise? I don't really think the argument that a corps who is not actively competing for the title is not making progress holds any water. Just as a side note, if you take a good listen to the crowd during, say, a Cavie, BD, or Phantom show, you will notice almost immediately how much more engaged they seem. There is a healthy electricity in the air-a buzz throughout. The fans seem to cheer out of excitement rather than feeling compelled to out of politeness. Perhaps Cavies, BD, and Phantom just have louder fans? Seriously though, just because I'm not on my feet screaming doesn't mean I didn't thoroughly enjoy the show. If anything I think it shows class that BK's fans don't need everybody in the stadium to know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller30 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) Incredibly well written response! I agree that a change could cause one side or the other to throw tomatoes. I also respect that while you do not care for the product you recognize they have a product that is consistent. The one difference I take with your great comments is that I do not believe Bluecoats or BD have reinvented themselves. BD won the title last year by bringing back tunes and intertwining them a different way, and this year they are still playing music that for the most part fit their style with the same type of visual fervor we are used to seeing. Yes they do some new things but their technique is not different. Bluecoats have always put shows together with heavy jazz or rock themes that are crowd pleasers. The fact they have been a bit more thematic of late is cool, but the year they placed 4th it was straight Matheny. Just my thoughts. By the way I reiterate again that BK owes it's current success to those of you that marched in the era you did. You guys were the true Blue Knight pioneers. Well said in your post!Wes Perkins BK '97 '98 In the spirit of feeling feisty and contrarian today (meeting the inlaws for the first time will do that to you), I am going to have to take your gracious response and tear it apart a bit. BD has in fact moved on in programming a few times. Just take a look around here at all the people pleading for BD to return to jazz. Last years Pegasus and other historical quotes hardly makes for a jazz show. The drill this year is a decidedly different approach for the corps, although you are correct though about the technique not changing (well, it changes a little bit every year, but that is an aside). Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the Bluecoats change in appearance was a deliberate step. New website design, new uniforms, new approach to programming all happened in 2007. As for pioneers, not really. We were just young punks marching in the corps, and somehow made it out ahead, even though Casey Smith "took the corps away from us" until we earned it (acckk), the midnight high mark time parties, or Casey and Mark dumping bags of trash in front of us to show us how bad of human beings we were . I somewhat take exception to the allusion to my era as somehow establishing the current corps success. Ours was all in spite of ourselves, and there have been a couple hard "restarts" with BK since that time, but I do thank you for your comment. (Keep in mind I was the eternal black sheep, or at least resident rabble rowser, so take my comments with yet even more grains of salt!) Edited July 31, 2008 by traveller30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuonela Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I don't know if you can commend me for that when I use the word "douchenozzle" in my statement! Haha. If that's not in the dictionary it should be. For the sake of those reading, I'll refrain from speculating as to what its definition may be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller30 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 In terms of the recent history of BK (let's call it 1990 on)..... I REALLY want to thank you for calling 1990 recent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyrp Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 In the spirit of feeling feisty and contrarian today (meeting the inlaws for the first time will do that to you), I am going to have to take your gracious response and tear it apart a bit. BD has in fact moved on in programming a few times. Just take a look around here at all the people pleading for BD to return to jazz. Last years Pegasus and other historical quotes hardly makes for a jazz show. The drill this year is a decidedly different approach for the corps, although you are correct though about the technique not changing (well, it changes a little bit every year, but that is an aside). Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the Bluecoats change in appearance was a deliberate step. New website design, new uniforms, new approach to programming all happened in 2007. As for pioneers, not really. We were just young punks marching in the corps, and somehow made it out ahead, even though Casey Smith "took the corps away from us" until we earned it (acckk), the midnight high mark time parties, or Casey and Mark dumping bags of trash in front of us to show us how bad of human beings we were . I somewhat take exception to the allusion to my era as somehow establishing the current corps success. Ours was all in spite of ourselves, and there have been a couple hard "restarts" with BK since that time, but I do thank you for your comment. (Keep in mind I was the eternal black sheep, or at least resident rabble rowser, so take my comments with yet even more grains of salt!) No exception taken with your comments about BD and Bluecoats. I do agree they are not playing the prototypical jazz shows that either corps is used to doing, but they still do have those elements in the shows albeit decreased a bit. All I know is that while I cannot speak for all who marched in the mid- late 90's the corps of your era had a profound effect on me. I am an emotional person and love stories of determination and triumph and that one was way motivational for me and still is. Mark told us history about the BK corps of the mid 80's- early 90's that stayed together through some challenging times and stuck it out together. That history was told to us I believe at Mapleton School in Denver at a spring camp and it stayed with me. He talked candidly about feeling so great for a group that started as a very young corps who was not close to finals that stayed together and became the first one's to make it. To be honest I cannot even imagine the anticipation and the rotten feeling you guys must have shared after finding out you didn't make it in in 1990. It would have been so easy to pack it in and feel doomed but the corps took the next step forward and that is what it is all about. I wish fan network would post all the corps in finals week for every year because I am dying to see that 1990 show. I truly do feel that the corps of the past 4-5 years are facing the moving up process to the next level albeit in a different manner. I think that on the current track they can achieve their goal, we'll see how it goes. Wes Perkins BK '97 '98 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 ...The seeds were planted way back when in 1990 when we learned the words to "I Go On" with a few weeks to go in the season... For those who don't know the lyrics, the following might provide some insight. The work is from Leonard Bernstein's "Mass." When the thunder rumbles, "Now the age of gold is dead." When the dreams we've clung to Trying to stay young, Have left us parched and old instead. When my courage crumbles, When I feel confused and frail, When my spirit falters on decaying altars And my illusions fail -- I go on right then. I go on again. I go on to say I will celebrate another day. I go on. If tomorrow tumbles And everything I love is gone, I will face regret all my days, and yet I will still go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notelvis Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) Well, if you and your chums agree, I guess it renders all other arguments moot... :pI'm not trying to be a douchnozzle, but I'm just trying to make the case that if even 99% of drum corps fans hated BK's productions, and 1% loved it, there would still be legitimate value to what they're doing. Obviously things aren't that drastic, but I don't think there's anything wrong, especially in an environment where variety is encouraged, about having selective appeal. I agree fully with you when you noted that it was merely my opinion that the Blue Knights have not seemed interested in engaging the audience with their shows. I also agree with the poster who notes that the Blue Knights have been remarkably consistent in creating a unique style and an easily recognizable niche which is unique to the Blue Knights. There is some value to having done that. There is some value to taking the corps that I marched in and just barely achieved Associate Status way back and turning it into a perrenial finalist. No arguments with that. However, if every corps took the approach that what they do is of legitimate value if just 1% of the audience really digs them, the activity would dry up and blow away in pretty short order. Survival means drawing in new fans and nurturing them to the point that they will plan future vacations around major DCI events........but if every corps offered a show where the final reaction is "Oh......it's over......golf clap".......well, this isn't a good thing to consider. Imagine if a counselor worked with 100 young people threatening to commit suicide and then 99 of those clients went ahead and jumped. Most people would say "Wow, can't we do better than have this guy counsel potential jumpers......for all we know he's sitting in there helping them pick which bridge to jump from!" (Poor analogy maybe........but just 1% is hardly a measure of success.) Perhaps the question here should be "Why have the Blue Knights not managed to appeal to a broader audience?" Better yet, maybe those creative minds behind the Blue Knights could be asking - "What can we do to still retain our uniqueness but excite our audience to the point that they want to stand up and cheer for our kids DURING our performance?" Several corps would do well to ponder this question. The Blue Knights are one of them. Edited July 31, 2008 by notelvis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Laubhan Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) Several corps would do well to ponder this question. The Blue Knights are one of them. I can tell you for a fact that they do... I hear you on the "What if every corps..." argument, but the fact of the matter is every corps doesn't. Because so many corps can move a crowd one way, it gives BK the freedom to try to move them another. That's one thing that makes them unique within the activity. Edited July 31, 2008 by Keith Laubhan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller30 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 All I know is that while I cannot speak for all who marched in the mid- late 90's the corps of your era had a profound effect on me. I am an emotional person and love stories of determination and triumph and that one was way motivational for me and still is. Mark told us history about the BK corps of the mid 80's- early 90's that stayed together through some challenging times and stuck it out together. That history was told to us I believe at Mapleton School in Denver at a spring camp and it stayed with me. He talked candidly about feeling so great for a group that started as a very young corps who was not close to finals that stayed together and became the first one's to make it. To be honest I cannot even imagine the anticipation and the rotten feeling you guys must have shared after finding out you didn't make it in in 1990. It would have been so easy to pack it in and feel doomed but the corps took the next step forward and that is what it is all about. I wish fan network would post all the corps in finals week for every year because I am dying to see that 1990 show. I truly do feel that the corps of the past 4-5 years are facing the moving up process to the next level albeit in a different manner. I think that on the current track they can achieve their goal, we'll see how it goes. Wes Perkins BK '97 '98 I am glad to see that some of the history is being passed down, but I would prefer that those moments don't get spun into an overblown mythology (How else are great stories made though, right?! ). Most of what I am sure you were told of wasn't really because of determination and triumph. More like being just young, dumb, or unaware enough to keep coming back. The loss in 1990 was tough, but nothing that would have made any of us pack it in, and certainly not a moment outside of itself for "defining" the corps, in spite of what some people wish to make it. We missed finals, we rode the bus back to Denver, we showed back up to camp in November. Lather, rinse, repeat just like every other year! Not much more than that, and certainly no doom and gloomers. The people affected the most were the rookouts and people that hadn't marched the corps for 3 or 4 years losing a shot at marching finals. The time in '86 when the corps actually almost packed it in after people were struck by lightning? Seminal moment indeed, but here is a little drum corps hint. Don't try to put a scaffolding down on its side in a raging thunderstorm to keep it from getting struck. Like I said earlier, a lot of what and how we did competitively back then was in spite of ourselves . What gets lost in the mists of time and myth about "I Go On" that I see Boo has posted above me, is Zingali stressing our relatively young age trying to do the show we were attempting, more so than the aspect of confronting adversity. There was another song he based the drill on from some Broadway show that also highlighted the "young" aspect of the corps, the name of which escapes me however. Plus, I think some people forget that Zingali was projecting his own life and struggles into the shows he was writing at the time, although that is forgotten in place of the hagiography of those years. I'll have more later I am sure, and Wesley check you inbox... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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