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Great Read on G vs Bb


Mello Dude

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When you hear a G bugle horn line it screams "Drum and Bugle Corps!" because of the distinctly, wonderful sound we all came to love.

However, I'm OK with Bb, etc. brass, as long as they're pumping out the sound I'm listening.

I just read the article. I didn't have time until now. Makes sense to me.

I even did some unsophisticated testing of my own and posted the results here in the Brass Forum.

By my own playing and measuring. The G bugle was louder than my Bb trumpet. I didn't hold anything back on either instrument and yes, of course, it was a professional model trumpet.

I don't have a dog in the fight. I don't mind either, but the G soprano bugle was definitely louder and my test listeners asked never to participate again.

Edited by Martybucs
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I remember that article. Pete Bond is a great musician and is certainly correct in the points he makes, but many don't really apply to the issue of Bb vs. G in a drum corps setting, or have become outdated in the years since he wrote it. Yes, no band will ever sound like a drum corps, but no drum corps has the same setup as a band, the same rehearsal schedule, the same arranging style...etc. So, no, they won't sound the same, but that's not really the point. He also brings up the issue of cost, which was an issue moreso when the change was first going on, but today it makes much more economic sense to invest in a line of Bb/F horns that can be resold much earlier in their life span to a much wider marketplace than to invest in a line of G horns with little resale value. Honestly, the financial issues more than any others are the biggest motivators for allowing them; there are musical advantages but I don't see them as being nearly as important as the money factor.

As for the tiresome loudness issue, there is nothing magical about the key of G that makes it louder. A horn designed like a soprano will project more than a regular trumpet because of the design, especially of the throat and the bell, but the key is irrelevant.

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CorpsVets

Music City Legend

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DCA corps that I think are still in G:

Renegades

SoCal Dream

Brigs

Empire

Kilties

Feel free to add (or subtract) from this list.

Gulf Coast Sound

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By my own playing and measuring. The G bugle was louder than my Bb trumpet. I didn't hold anything back on either instrument and yes, of course, it was a professional model trumpet.

I don't have a dog in the fight. I don't mind either, but the G soprano bugle was definitely louder and my test listeners asked never to participate again.

I see that you used a "pro" model horn. Just curious, have you ever had a chance to compare the G sop to a Bb trumpet designed for the field? Something like the Kanstul COL-103? It is basically a Bb Powerbore trumpet.

In my ear to ear listening, I think I am just as powerful on both horns. However the timbre on the Powerbore Sop is different making it sound louder. I think it is a brighter sound which is opposite of the article. Either way, remembering my sound and music science casses, I think this is due to the longer tubing of the G Sop being able to resonate a few more nodes of the sound wave when producing the same pitch on the 2 horns.

Edited by MiniSopGuy
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I see that you used a "pro" model horn. Just curious, have you ever had a chance to compare the G sop to a Bb trumpet designed for the field? Something like the Kanstul COL-103? It is basically a Bb Powerbore trumpet.

In my ear to ear listening, I think I am just as powerful on both horns. However the timbre on the Powerbore Sop is different making it sound louder. I think it is a brighter sound which is opposite of the article. Either way, remembering my sound and music science casses, I think this is due to the longer tubing of the G Sop being able to resonate a few more nodes of the sound wave when producing the same pitch on the 2 horns.

I tried one of those horns for like a week.Did not like it at all.Nothing like the flip oaks wild thing trumpet with a big bore.

Trumpets when your standing in front of them are just as loud as Sops.But when you get back away from them there is a huge difference in projection.

Sops Rule. :tongue:

Trumpets drool. :thumbup:

Edited by camel lips
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I see that you used a "pro" model horn. Just curious, have you ever had a chance to compare the G sop to a Bb trumpet designed for the field? Something like the Kanstul COL-103? It is basically a Bb Powerbore trumpet.

In my ear to ear listening, I think I am just as powerful on both horns. However the timbre on the Powerbore Sop is different making it sound louder. I think it is a brighter sound which is opposite of the article. Either way, remembering my sound and music science casses, I think this is due to the longer tubing of the G Sop being able to resonate a few more nodes of the sound wave when producing the same pitch on the 2 horns.

The trumpet is a Yamaha Signature Mike Vax model. It's a poly bore horn with heavyweight valve section and lightweight bell. Not a marching horn but you can pump some sound through it.

I have tried a DEG Bb trumpet made for drum corps. I liked it. Thought it had great sound and could handle all the volume I could put through it without distorting. I thought it was impressive. I tried another Bb DEG last year, I think it was the same model, but wasn't nearly as nice. Kind of "fought back" when trying to push it. I think they're .468" bore - that's pretty large.

I chime in on the issue, but I'm OK with both. I think today's Bb lines are plenty loud enough, but I do think the G bugles have a different sound that I like. I grew up on that sound.

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[snip]

As for the tiresome loudness issue, there is nothing magical about the key of G that makes it louder. A horn designed like a soprano will project more than a regular trumpet because of the design, especially of the throat and the bell, but the key is irrelevant.

You say "nothing magical". Everyone would agree with that, in a non metaphorical sense. However, the article in question, does give a real, physical reason why the G is louder, or at least, seems to be louder.

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However, the article in question, does give a real, physical reason why the G is louder, or at least, seems to be louder. The G soprano bugle was definitely louder and my test listeners asked never to participate again.

Gee, I wonder why??? Did you break his ear drum during the "G" test??? Probably came close, eh???

Interesting comments here, and it appears that alll of the DCI Division I Corps don't use "G's" any more, but a few of the DCA Competing Corps still do. For the reasons of resale value when buying new instruments, I wonder how long this will continue? I suspect as long as quality pre-owned (what car dealers now call them) "G" instruments are still around to be purchased. In the not too distant future, we may have to go over to Africa to get 'em, as they're being sent overseas from what I'm hearing.

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I tried one of those horns for like a week.Did not like it at all.Nothing like the flip oaks wild thing trumpet with a big bore.

Trumpets when your standing in front of them are just as loud as Sops.But when you get back away from them there is a huge difference in projection.

Sops Rule. :shutup:

Trumpets drool. :shutup:

"Sops Rule, Trumpets drool":

He shoots, he scores..... :shutup:

Elphaba

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