salad315 Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I don't think that's a fair comparison. Let me try this: How many guard members do you think really care about large hornline hits? I'm almost positive they care more about the visual as well. Our guard LOVED it when we played loud. At spring training at the end of the rehearsal (when we were still working), they would plop down in front of our arc and just listen. Did they care more about the visual stuff....duh. Im not trying to say that marching and playing is the ONLY requirement, or even that it should be priority no. 1. Im saying that on my scale (and as others are pointing out, maybe on the judges scales), that it is a higher priority than the cavies are giving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feathers Up Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I just don't see the Cavaliers changing much in the near future..And why should they? I may not be a big fan of their shows, but there's no doubt they are one of the most popular corps right now. Maybe not on DCP, but every show I've been to the last several years people go crazy for them. High school kids seem to LOVE them. They have NO porblem with finding membership and they've been near or at the top for the past 8 years. It would be dumb to change the way they do things at this point considering how well it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamparadiddlediddle Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 This topic comes up with a number of corps, usually during the competitive season and largely because we like to compare the demands, design, and effectiveness of shows and then hypothesize how they should be judged.Nothing wrong with this, but here are my thoughts concerning the Cavaliers: They are amazing! Even as people think the formula is getting old, they were still the most striking visual show at Worlds this year. Every corps has a style, a look, a sound, a unique way of doing things. If the point was to have the Cavaliers look and sound like all the others, then what fun is that? I appreciate the fact that we seem to be getting back to a time when many of the corps have a very unique and defined style. The Cavaliers are certainly one of those groups, and when they enter the field you just know what you are going to get, and you know it's going to be amazing and very well done. That's a good thing! So although they try to do some new things, they also have a look and sound that is somewhat predictable, but not in a bad way. What they do and how they get there may very well be a formula, but formulas are in-and-of themselves good things if used properly. The other side of this argument/discussion is that a drum corps show cannot be defined by demand and time limits on playing vs. moving. This is why judging is so difficult. There are no ordinals, no set prerequisites for type of music and visual design, and there are no limits on how many demanding passages a show must have and or whether those passages must ALL be played while moving. The only thing that really matters is the ability of the show to communicate what it's supposed to, and for it to be entertaining while showcasing the talents of the members. In this regard I think the Cavaliers continue to be one of the most successful corps out there. Everything works. Their show this year was beautiful, full of subtle nuance and some bold statements that emphasized the guard's portrayal of their characters. If you change the type of musical arranging or involve the horn line to a greater degree, covering up the all-important percussion and mallet parts (so needed in Japanese music), you completely ruin the needed effect of this show. Demand is only one part of the experience, and even though corps, like Cadets, had a bit more demand in the brass book, clearly we can see that the Cadets had other issues with their show. Lack of coordination in theme, music that needed changed as the narration changed, and so forth, were all issues that Cadets faced and Cavaliers really did not. And trust me, there is plenty of demand in their book, it's just not as obvious to everyone. And just because their music isn't that sort of "jaw-dropping" variety that uses more flash to communicate the message, there are plenty of other areas to consider when it comes to construction and demand and what is needed. Yup. Well said. They were really, really, really, clean at finals. More so I thought than first or second. And the drumline ripped a great performance. Good for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musclebud Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I have heard this from many other people too. They have gotten away with it for some time now. Other corps like the Cadets, Crown, SCV dont seem to have a problem playing and moving at the same time.... But for some reason the judges have still been giving them good degree of difficulty scores..... It is time for this to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMBob Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 This is something I have noticed as well. It has caused me to dislike some of the Cavaliers' recent shows, or at least to not like them as much. I think that, as fans, that is the only thing that can come out of this. Obviously, since this has been going on for quite a few years, the judging sheets and the judges don't seem to work against this. There's not much we, as fans, can do about that, especially by talking about it here. I do, however, appreciate it when corps move and play...a lot. As everyone says, different strokes for different folks. There are a huge number of Cavaliers fans out there who don't have a problem with it. Those who are like me will just go on being fans of other corps until someone on there staff makes a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaul Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 But for some reason the judges have still been giving them good degree of difficulty scores. There is no such thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salad315 Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 There is no such thing. Well then MAYBE, the judges should stop giving them!! :mat: :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mn trumpter guy Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 There is no such thing. Yes there is. In both musical and visual General Effect captions (not sure about performance/execution) there is a'top box' and a 'bottom box'. the 'top box' is called composition: it is what the Corps is TRYING to do. AKA 'degree of difficulty'. the 'bottom box' is 'execution' or 'performance': it is what the Corps is ACTUALLY doing. So, for most of the season, the top box is higher than the bottom box, although many corps increase their top box score as the season passes also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared_mello Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Yes there is. In both musical and visual General Effect captions (not sure about performance/execution) there is a'top box' and a 'bottom box'.the 'top box' is called composition: it is what the Corps is TRYING to do. AKA 'degree of difficulty'. the 'bottom box' is 'execution' or 'performance': it is what the Corps is ACTUALLY doing. So, for most of the season, the top box is higher than the bottom box, although many corps increase their top box score as the season passes also. the top box/composition/what the corps is trying to do.........none of that = 'degree of difficulty.' maybe degree of difficulty factors into that score once the other elements of the show's design are calculated, but you're interpreting it incorrectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liebot Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Yes there is. In both musical and visual General Effect captions (not sure about performance/execution) there is a'top box' and a 'bottom box'.the 'top box' is called composition: it is what the Corps is TRYING to do. AKA 'degree of difficulty'. the 'bottom box' is 'execution' or 'performance': it is what the Corps is ACTUALLY doing. So, for most of the season, the top box is higher than the bottom box, although many corps increase their top box score as the season passes also. Composition does not equal degree of difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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