Hornline Scoring in 2008, or before

[tigger2]

Brass scoring (number and placement) sometimes seems very accurate, and at other times, not so much.

As audience members, our own personal bias, seat placement, video/audio vs. live, mood, etc. can affect our perceptions of how a brass line performs.

The brass judges are of course on the field, in the members' faces so to speak. Our perception and the judge's may not be the same simply due to our

proximity to the performers.

With that understood, who do you feel may have been over or under credited for their performances, based on your audience vantage point?

Does brass staff credibility with the judging community based on any number of factors: familiarity/past history with staff members, off-season interaction, years in the activity, staff's ages, past results,etc. give any given corps any advantage or disadvantage?

A few of my own perceptions:

PR 2008- Weighing the physical difficulty with the achievement of the written book, I would have placed Regiment's line in first. Despite a few un-perfect sounds, it is all worth the pay off in GE and power for me. The what and how both were box 5. Their staff should have no credibility issues or things to prove; that should not be an issue in their scoring.

Crossmen 2008- While the sound quality was good and fundamentally seemed well-honed, I wish they would have picked four or so places "to let it go" some. I felt they played fundamentally better than several units above them (should be awarded in their field score), but did not create the energy or GE. Their young staff probably does not get the nod if a tenth or two separates them from a close competitor who's staff has been around a while and has had some success. Not that anyone is underhanded, it is human nature. We tend to credit the reputation initially in many performance venues, at first.

[derbydawg]

Some 2008 brass caption notables

As unbiased as I can be, based on my perception, this year's rankings for me based on several things:

(the credibility issues are not my lack of trust, just what I think happens at these different levels)

Corps where credibility probably should not be a factor

Blue Devils 4th place

PR 1st place

Cavies 5th place

Crown 2nd place

Cadets 3rd place

Bluecoats 6th place

Some credibility issues may come into play

SCV 7th place

Blue Knights 8th place

Blue Stars 9th place

Boston 10th place

Even more possible issues with credibility

Madison 11th place

Spirit 12th place

Crossmen 13th place

Glassmen 14th place

Academy 15th place

Troopers 16th place

PC 17th place

Of the past five or so years, I feel SCV and Boston to get the benefit of the doubt when push comes to shove more often than not.

[Bob984]

There were definitely some judging issues regarding brass this year. In my opinion, Phantom and Crown

clearly had the best brass lines in the country this year. The corps did finish 1-2 in music, yet there

were some judges who did not credit them. I heard issues with Cavaliers and especially Blue Devils,

yet these were only reflected in some of the music judges' scores. Even when judges did rank

the corps correctly, the spreads given in the caption were the absolute minimum.

In brass performance at finals, I watched the judge (who had seen all of the corps several times) stand over 30

yards out of position during a segment of music for BD's show that was poorly articulated every time

that I saw them (West Chester, Allentown, and all 3 nights at Bloomington). How could he NOT know

to hone in on that spot? Or perhaps he didn't perceive it as being poor??? Obviously the ensemble

guy heard it, and yes, there were ensemble AND individual problems happening there.

Another concern is that judges in all captions are to respond to both the "What" and the "how" of

the program. In my opinion, consideration of the "what" is not being done accurately by several

in the area of brass. Example: (a) corps A bends a note for 30 seconds. it is done uniformly, and

there are no errors heard (b) corps B has a ton of articulation happening on the fly. It is nearly

flawless, but he walks by one soprano who is a few milliseconds behind.....not enough to be

heard in the stands, but not flawless. He puts corps A on top. DID THEY REALLY ACHIEVE MORE???

Dynamic range is almost never considered. Corps A comes on. Very clean job. Impacts are

restricted/limited. Few tone quality issues, but they seldom reach for upper dynamic levels.

Corps B comes on. Their dynamic range is nearly double that of corps A. Three baritone players

push it too far in a few spots and lose tone quality as he samples them individually. They lose

on his sheet. Again, WHAT was being asked of that line, and DID THEY REALLY ACHIEVE LESS OVERALL??

There is definitely room for improvement in brass judging in DCI.

GB

[ApathyJones]

Good god...Phantom won the #### show, why are you people now harping on BD beating them in brass? BD's brass WAS better. Just because you LIKE Phantom's brass more doesn't make them better. "Better" is not subjective, it is based on criteria that trained judges (who I am 99% sure are more competent to judge brass than you are ) determine who is the best each year. I guess they should have swept all captions too huh?

I never thought a group of people could make me actually start to dislike a corps based on their rampant fanaticism. Drum Corps Planet should be renamed "Phantom Regiment for Phantom Phans Only, if You Have Anything to Say That is Not 100% Kissing Phantom's ### Then Don't Post Here Planet".

[gjdavistuba]

Good god...Phantom won the #### show, why are you people now harping on BD beating them in brass? BD's brass WAS better. Just because you LIKE Phantom's brass more doesn't make them better. "Better" is not subjective, it is based on criteria that trained judges (who I am 99% sure are more competent to judge brass than you are ) determine who is the best each year. I guess they should have swept all captions too huh?

I never thought a group of people could make me actually start to dislike a corps based on their rampant fanaticism. Drum Corps Planet should be renamed "Phantom Regiment for Phantom Phans Only, if You Have Anything to Say That is Not 100% Kissing Phantom's ### Then Don't Post Here Planet".

QFT

[Hrothgar15]

"Better" is not subjective

"Better" is most certainly subjective...it's just not judged that way.

[rufus]

Some 2008 brass caption notables

As unbiased as I can be, based on my perception, this year's rankings for me based on several things:

(the credibility issues are not my lack of trust, just what I think happens at these different levels)

Corps where credibility probably should not be a factor

Blue Devils 4th place

PR 1st place

Cavies 5th place

Crown 2nd place

Cadets 3rd place

Bluecoats 6th place

Some credibility issues may come into play

SCV 7th place

Blue Knights 8th place

Blue Stars 9th place

Boston 10th place

Even more possible issues with credibility

Madison 11th place

Spirit 12th place

Crossmen 13th place

Glassmen 14th place

Academy 15th place

Troopers 16th place

PC 17th place

Of the past five or so years, I feel SCV and Boston to get the benefit of the doubt when push comes to shove more often than not.

I take it you didn't like colts brass?

[ApathyJones]

"Better" is most certainly subjective...it's just not judged that way.

I agree with you on most things Hroth so I am not going to get angry or anything :P Liking something is subjective, being better is not.

I can like something more than you can like the same thing. Something being better than something else is not subjective. If a criteria is established, such as, the higher a number is the better it is, then whether or not you like number 8 more than number 9 is irrelevant, number 9 is "better". People have a hard time separating those two things.

If judging in DCI was based on what you, the fan, likes more, then the criteria for a show being better than another one would be based on what you liked more. But it isn't. Currently the criteria is what is on the judging sheets as interpreted by the judging panel that is there that night. So you liking something has absolutely 0 relevance on it being better than something else in this case.

Edited August 28, 2008 by ApathyJones

[derbydawg]

I take it you didn't like colts brass?

Whoopps. Quite sorry Colts! Added into the mix.

Some 2008 brass caption notables

As unbiased as I can be, based on my perception, this year's rankings for me based on several things:

(the credibility issues are not my lack of trust, just what I think happens at these different levels)

Corps where credibility probably should not be a factor

Blue Devils 4th place

PR 1st place

Cavies 5th place

Crown 2nd place

Cadets 3rd place

Bluecoats 6th place

Some credibility issues may come into play

SCV 7th place

Blue Knights 8th place

Blue Stars 9th place

Boston 10th place

Even more possible issues with credibility

Madison 11th place

Spirit 12th place

Crossmen 13th place

Colts 14th place

Glassmen 15th place

Academy 16th place

Troopers 17th place

PC 18th place

Of the past five or so years, I feel SCV and Boston to get the benefit of the doubt when push comes to shove more often than not.

[OICMR corps]

Good god...Phantom won the #### show, why are you people now harping on BD beating them in brass? BD's brass WAS better. Just because you LIKE Phantom's brass more doesn't make them better. "Better" is not subjective, it is based on criteria that trained judges (who I am 99% sure are more competent to judge brass than you are ) determine who is the best each year. I guess they should have swept all captions too huh?

I never thought a group of people could make me actually start to dislike a corps based on their rampant fanaticism. Drum Corps Planet should be renamed "Phantom Regiment for Phantom Phans Only, if You Have Anything to Say That is Not 100% Kissing Phantom's ### Then Don't Post Here Planet".

Geez, it's a discussion forum! If there are more Phantom fans, what are they suppose to do not participate? State your case and get off of other peoples' backs.

Edited August 28, 2008 by OICMR corps