Hornline Scoring in 2008, or before

[ApathyJones]

You've made the statement that better or best is not subjective ever. Your argument appears to be that this is so because judges follow a set of rules that were laid out by DCI. Yet you agree with me that while in the process of following these rules judges make subjective calls to determine who gets a higher score. And you think that it is my argument that is breaking down?

And as far as any non-judge who thinks another corps is better being wrong, you'd probably be right most of the time, but there have been, are now, and will continue to be, judges who get it wrong from time to time as well.

Thanks for proving my point for me. You really did make it as simple as possible.

You are driving me crazy :P (And I mean that in the nicest possible way because I respect your pedigree!) By the very definition a judge cannot technically get it wrong. You may not agree with them, but because they and they alone have the power to score and rank the corps they can never actually be wrong. Their individual observations may be wrong, but the end product is always correct, because DCI has entrusted them and them alone with scoring and ranking the corps.

If a judge said "The Blue Devils win this year because they have red uniforms!" when in reality they have blue ones it wouldn't change the fact that if the judge placed them in 1st then that year Blue Devils were the "best" corps, by virtue of what we have to go by in official rankings (this also would mean that uniform color somehow was a scored caption :P). Now, you and everyone else in the world would be correct in calling ######## due to it being obvious that their uniforms are blue and not pink, but ultimately that doesn't matter does it? This is ludicrous example but the point remains valid.

And yes, I agree that the Judges make subjective calls, but it doesn't conflict with my argument because the criteria from which they are to rank corps is in many cases based around them making subjective calls.

At this point we are arguing semantics. My entire purpose was to basically make the point to the doofus crowd here that because they LIKE something, it doesn't make it better. Liking is based on opinion, being better than something else is not an opinion when they are rules in place to determine what is in fact better. If you say you think 4 is a bigger number than 5 and I say you are wrong, 5 is, I am right 100% of the time and that will never change.

[Russellrks]

I get it that liking Corps A better doesn't necessarily mean they are better. I also realize the finality of the power of the judge to determine the outcome. My sole argument is that determining who is better is a subjective process and that is where we seem to disagree.

Would it help if I told you that while I taught during the change from the "Tick" system to the "Build Up" system, as it was called at the time (1984), this new system of judging was also called the "Subjective System?"

[Elmo Blatch]

I golfed with Paul McGarr last weekend, and we talked about finals night...

I went fishing with Donald Love last weekend, and we talked about finals night...

[Donny Drum Corps]

I hung out with Jeff Mitchell at DCA last weekend. He told me that PIoneer should have won brass.LOL...

Donny

[slimgoose2]

I can't believe I've had no replies or PMs.

Pleeease tell us what he said. It's been over a week.

[CrunchyTenor]

I think the name of the corps, and their "image", can affect scoring.

IMO, the 80's/90's VK was a victim of a perceived bias because they chose to "color outside the lines" instead of following the leader by doing "serious" shows. There were some wonderful brass and percussion lines, and writing, that didn't get the same credit.

Don't take my word for it, though. Get the Legacy DVD's or dust off the old CD's and give them a listen.

Garry in Vegas

Edited September 15, 2008 by CrunchyTenor