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Stick Grip


sday88

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This was touched on in another thread a while ago in which I questioned and "odd" grip that I had seen in a video. I would like some more information. The grip I am referring to is where you have the fulcrum using the middle finger and the thumb. I noticed the Troopers tenor line uses this grip. Can you all explain this grip to me? Can you post some pictures? Can you point me in a direction online to where I can read about it? Is there any advantage/disadvantage to using it? It just looks really unnatural and awkward. I tried it and it just doesn't feel right. And I think it looks stupid with the index finger just kinda sticking out there.

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(2 cents here) Honestly, if you're looking for speed, you'd want the pivot to be as close to the center point on the stick. (Better balance) Looking for power, more towards the back of the *stick. (*More stick weight in front of your hands) Think of a Teeter Totter on the playground and how moving the center point (or pivot) to one side or the other makes it more difficult to move the board up and down evenly. You could take this analogy a step further, by visualizing when you have an adult on one side and a medium-sized child on the other-such as when you have a heavier mallet head on certain mallets. You get power, but you tend to sacrifice speed or quickness.

Personally, I like speed! :laughing: Therefore, it really seems to be most efficient having that point between the thumb and index finger, allowing the back fingers (3rd/4th/5th) to react for quick note snaps. I've known players that grip in the back part of their hands. They've had power, but I've discovered that they usually don't have the relative speed to add to it.

I agree on keeping all fingers touching the sticks... To me, it looks & feels more in control and most importantly - it's less of a target for hitting on rims, harness parts or other potentially painful impacts. After all, having flesh and bone flapping away out there, just gets in the way sooner or later... :ph34r:

Edited by S. Pearson
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I think I used a varation of this grip at one point during my marching career. I was an extremely skinny tenor player, around 115 (on a good day) and 5'11. Using the standard grip I think by mid-tour I had bruised the index finger from playing/pinching-I actually had no fat to protect the bone/muscle in that area. It was extremely painful, so at times I'd play using the middle finger as the main point of pressure on the fulcrum and I kept the index finger on the stick, but it did minimal work. So you really couldn't tell what I was doing-it looked the same as the rest of the line stylistically. I could play decently (not tick) this way, but it always felt awkward. Knowing what I know now, I would have tried to get a cortisone shot in the index finger, consistantly used ice and anti-inflamatory meds, and considered some sort of filler injection in the off season. But that was 25 years ago, lol.

(2 cents here) Honestly, if you're looking for speed, you'd want the pivot to be as close to the center point on the stick. (Better balance) Looking for power, more towards the back of the *stick. (*More stick weight in front of your hands) Think of a Teeter Totter on the playground and how moving the center point (or pivot) to one side or the other makes it more difficult to move the board up and down evenly. You could take this analogy a step further, by visualizing when you have an adult on one side and a medium-sized child on the other-such as when you have a heavier mallet head on certain mallets. You get power, but you tend to sacrifice speed or quickness.

Personally, I like speed! :laughing: Therefore, it really seems to be most efficient having that point between the thumb and index finger, allowing the back fingers (3rd/4th/5th) to react for quick note snaps. I've known players that grip in the back part of their hands. They've had power, but I've discovered that they usually don't have the relative speed to add to it.

I agree on keeping all fingers touching the sticks... To me, it looks & feels more in control and most importantly - it's less of a target for hitting on rims, harness parts or other potentially painful impacts. After all, having flesh and bone flapping away out there, just gets in the way sooner or later... :ph34r:

Edited by pearlsnaredrummer77
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Now that I don't drum competitively (i.e. I don't have to conform to a standard) I find myself switching from a thumb-index fulcrum to a thumb-middle-third finger fulcrum depending on what I am playing...even in the middle of playing.

If I'm playing fast rolls, flam drags, inverts, cheese etc, I use a pretty hard thumb-index fulcrum. If I am playing any sort of swiss rudiments - flam taps, swiss triplets - or fast singles with accents, I pull the fulcrum back, especially at higher speeds. I don't know why I do this, but it's what works for me.

Edit: the above is for drum sticks, everything changes with tenor mallets, as the majority of the weight is in front of the fulcrum...haven't really payed attention, but I guess most of the time I use an index-thumb fulcrum with heavier mallets.

Edited by Slow Adam
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  • 2 weeks later...

"odd", "awkward", and worse yet: "stupid".

you want awkward: how about choking the heck out of a stick to prevent rebound in the name of uniformity or wearing a shiny helmet with a boa mohawk. :sleeping:

i know, i know... taking offense to a forum post... i just pooped in my pants a little.

anyway, you're getting a response out of me so congrats.

[/fun time]

the following pertains to drumming on surfaces that kick back hard (ie not keyboards)

there are two balance points to consider: the balance point of the stick and the balance point of the fulcrum (both of which are fulcra so let's not argue semantics).

the balance point of the stick is just that: the point on the sick that divides weight distribution evenly. there is downward pressure at the bead and at the butt of the stick. this is usually aft of center. backing up the stick further we come to the fulcrum balance point.

the fulcrum balance point attempts to balance downward AND UPWARD pressure (force vector from rebound) with respect to the BEAD while in motion. that balance point is the sweet-spot.

most of us have done this before: balance the stick where you think the fulcrum should go then drop the bead on the head and watch the stick bounce itself to equilibrium (ie resting on head). if it lands heavily and dies quickly, then you are too far back. if it seems to float and not make solid contact, then you are too far forward. the sweet-spot is where there is balance with the force of the rebound up and gravity pushing down.

moving your fulcrum (in either direction) away from the sweet-spot sacrifices rebound balance. moving it forward gives you finer control (eg: holding a pencil toward the lead, or moving one hand up a baseball bat to bunt), while moving it back gives more directional force (ie stronger downstroke; eg: holding the bat toward the hilt to clear the green monster).

what we are trying to do with our fulcrum is create side-to-side pressure at the sweet-spot. dealing with the "side-to-side"

determines wich finger (if not both: see "tri-point" fulcrum) we will put to use.

middle finger fulcrum has two clear ergonomic advantages.

1) by shifting up a finger on the fulcrum it moves the sweet-spot of the stick closer to the rotation point of the wrist and balance point of the hand by moving it both back and in. this helps greatly in smooting out multiple rebound srtokes... check out any jazz cat rippin multiple strokes on the ride: smooth as silk, and usu done from middle finger fulrcum.

2) it is a more natural fit for your hand.

[there is a second part to this equation that we need to understand before going further with 2: part of this method involves keeping the stick fairly close to being in line with the arm so that arm motion (yes, it is acceptable to move your arms when you play; maybe not at your high school or back in your day, but we are not discussing those situations) and stick motion are in near the same plane.]

try this: hold your hand up ~ fingers extended and palm facing you. now, starting with your pinky (and keeping in mind that we are going to "line the stick up" with our forearm) wrap your fingers into your palm stopping after the middle finger (don't wrap index). from here you should find that you thumb connects very readily to your middle finger which would be the side-to-side pressure of your fulcrum. your index finger now acts as more of a guide, not unlike the middle finger in traditional grip.

just like anything remotely dangerous: do not attempt unless under the guidance of a trained professional, lest you find yourself posting forum fodder with verbiage apropos of a petulant 7 year old.

sincerely,

big dummy doo-doo face.

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"odd", "awkward", and worse yet: "stupid".

you want awkward: how about choking the heck out of a stick to prevent rebound in the name of uniformity or wearing a shiny helmet with a boa mohawk. :sleeping:

i know, i know... taking offense to a forum post... i just pooped in my pants a little.

anyway, you're getting a response out of me so congrats.

[/fun time]

the following pertains to drumming on surfaces that kick back hard (ie not keyboards)

there are two balance points to consider: the balance point of the stick and the balance point of the fulcrum (both of which are fulcra so let's not argue semantics).

the balance point of the stick is just that: the point on the sick that divides weight distribution evenly. there is downward pressure at the bead and at the butt of the stick. this is usually aft of center. backing up the stick further we come to the fulcrum balance point.

the fulcrum balance point attempts to balance downward AND UPWARD pressure (force vector from rebound) with respect to the BEAD while in motion. that balance point is the sweet-spot.

most of us have done this before: balance the stick where you think the fulcrum should go then drop the bead on the head and watch the stick bounce itself to equilibrium (ie resting on head). if it lands heavily and dies quickly, then you are too far back. if it seems to float and not make solid contact, then you are too far forward. the sweet-spot is where there is balance with the force of the rebound up and gravity pushing down.

moving your fulcrum (in either direction) away from the sweet-spot sacrifices rebound balance. moving it forward gives you finer control (eg: holding a pencil toward the lead, or moving one hand up a baseball bat to bunt), while moving it back gives more directional force (ie stronger downstroke; eg: holding the bat toward the hilt to clear the green monster).

what we are trying to do with our fulcrum is create side-to-side pressure at the sweet-spot. dealing with the "side-to-side"

determines wich finger (if not both: see "tri-point" fulcrum) we will put to use.

middle finger fulcrum has two clear ergonomic advantages.

1) by shifting up a finger on the fulcrum it moves the sweet-spot of the stick closer to the rotation point of the wrist and balance point of the hand by moving it both back and in. this helps greatly in smooting out multiple rebound srtokes... check out any jazz cat rippin multiple strokes on the ride: smooth as silk, and usu done from middle finger fulrcum.

2) it is a more natural fit for your hand.

[there is a second part to this equation that we need to understand before going further with 2: part of this method involves keeping the stick fairly close to being in line with the arm so that arm motion (yes, it is acceptable to move your arms when you play; maybe not at your high school or back in your day, but we are not discussing those situations) and stick motion are in near the same plane.]

try this: hold your hand up ~ fingers extended and palm facing you. now, starting with your pinky (and keeping in mind that we are going to "line the stick up" with our forearm) wrap your fingers into your palm stopping after the middle finger (don't wrap index). from here you should find that you thumb connects very readily to your middle finger which would be the side-to-side pressure of your fulcrum. your index finger now acts as more of a guide, not unlike the middle finger in traditional grip.

just like anything remotely dangerous: do not attempt unless under the guidance of a trained professional, lest you find yourself posting forum fodder with verbiage apropos of a petulant 7 year old.

sincerely,

big dummy doo-doo face.

What the holy heck are you babbling about?

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"odd", "awkward", and worse yet: "stupid".

you want awkward: how about choking the heck out of a stick to prevent rebound in the name of uniformity or wearing a shiny helmet with a boa mohawk. :blink:

i know, i know... taking offense to a forum post... i just pooped in my pants a little.

anyway, you're getting a response out of me so congrats.

(snip)

sincerely,

big dummy doo-doo face.

tl; dr

Can I get a cliff's notes of that? Hopefully one with punctuation, capitalization, all that good stuff.

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get a dictionary and/or hire a private instructor.

Maybe if you weren't rambling incoherently someone could understand you. I was wondering if your original post was directed at me. (?) You got a problem with what I said? Yeah, I think it looks odd and awkward, that's my OPINION. When I see someone playing the drums with their index finger sticking straight out because they have their fulcrum with the thumb and middle finger, I think they look like they were never taught the proper way to play the drums. Maybe for you, and others, it works okay. I've tried it and it doesn't work for me. I've been playing drums for 30 years, all with what I was taught, and consider correct, it's with the fulcrum at the thumb and index finger. I'm happy it works for you, not me. I was just looking for more information on the subject.

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