hazing/misconduct

[ouooga]

The last year I marched, I had a brass tech who was absurdly antisemitic. It's drum corps though, so it was just mostly taken in good humor. It started out kind of funny at first, and by the end of the season you just became deaf to it. In the end, it highlights 99% of my memories of the tech. I'll also always remember that antisemitism worked its way into the (always good natured) lexicon of my section that season.

I'm now nearly a decade and a half removed from the activity as anything but a fan, and have had a long time to reflect on that situation. When I think back to that tech, I realize now he was a mid-20s kid leading a bunch of teenagers. He grew up in drum corps (aged out of the same corps only a few seasons before) and was just continuing the crude sense of humor his own techs and sections had probably done.

Staffs set the tone. If members are doing well, they'll get praise from the staff, and if that staff is crass then those strong members will be crass too. Suddenly you have members critiquing other members with the same crassness, except kids are dumb and make the jokes even more crass, and suddenly you have a toxic culture for any rookies or members who are struggling.

The problem with all of this is that many of these staff members are so young. Sure, when I was marching, mid 20s sounded old, but looking back now I realize that I'm hoping for a level of maturity among staff that just isn't there yet at that age, added on by the fact that much of this culture is just 'a part of drum corps.' As far as I know, techs receive no training in terms of motivation, communication, teaching (unless they're already teachers) or sensitivity training, all of which are core assets to most management programs at normal companies.

Some of those staff members move on, and new ones take their place, or others stick with the activity for a long time, and suddenly you have a tenured individual with 40 years of experience and multiple titles who sees it as ok to harass female staff members because 'it's just drum corps'. But nothing in the process, as far as I see, transitions members into staff roles that same way we would do it in any other industry.

[ouooga]

Quote

"the older I get the more I want to distance myself from the activity."

I realize that's a common sentiment on here, but man, I definitely find myself much more often thinking 'the older I get the more I want to make the activity better.' I mean this 100% from the management side of things, from the top to the bottom. 

[Terri Schehr]

6 minutes ago, ouooga said:

The last year I marched, I had a brass tech who was absurdly antisemitic. It's drum corps though, so it was just mostly taken in good humor. It started out kind of funny at first, and by the end of the season you just became deaf to it. In the end, it highlights 99% of my memories of the tech. I'll also always remember that antisemitism worked its way into the (always good natured) lexicon of my section that season.

I'm now nearly a decade and a half removed from the activity as anything but a fan, and have had a long time to reflect on that situation. When I think back to that tech, I realize now he was a mid-20s kid leading a bunch of teenagers. He grew up in drum corps (aged out of the same corps only a few seasons before) and was just continuing the crude sense of humor his own techs and sections had probably done.

Staffs set the tone. If members are doing well, they'll get praise from the staff, and if that staff is crass then those strong members will be crass too. Suddenly you have members critiquing other members with the same crassness, except kids are dumb and make the jokes even more crass, and suddenly you have a toxic culture for any rookies or members who are struggling.

The problem with all of this is that many of these staff members are so young. Sure, when I was marching, mid 20s sounded old, but looking back now I realize that I'm hoping for a level of maturity among staff that just isn't there yet at that age, added on by the fact that much of this culture is just 'a part of drum corps.' As far as I know, techs receive no training in terms of motivation, communication, teaching (unless they're already teachers) or sensitivity training, all of which are core assets to most management programs at normal companies.

Some of those staff members move on, and new ones take their place, or others stick with the activity for a long time, and suddenly you have a tenured individual with 40 years of experience and multiple titles who sees it as ok to harass female staff members because 'it's just drum corps'. But nothing in the process, as far as I see, transitions members into staff roles that same way we would do it in any other industry.

I don’t believe there is any “good natured” antisemitism.  They may not realize it but that kind of crudeness cuts people to the bone.  It would wear on me very quickly.  I would simmer quietly for awhile and then the pot would boil over.  And nobody wants that. 

[ouooga]

15 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

I don’t believe there is any “good natured” antisemitism.  They may not realize it but that kind of crudeness cuts people to the bone.  It would wear on me very quickly.  I would simmer quietly for awhile and then the pot would boil over.  And nobody wants that. 

See the bolded section you wrote. The No. 1 thing I realize when people say "I didn't have a good experience in drum corps" is that they experienced members and a culture that didn't realize that kind of crudeness cuts people to the bone. There's something glorious to be said about the freedoms from political correctness that drum corps provides, but drum corps is still composed of young people and a lot of drum corps people forget that.

[jwillis35]

On 10/5/2008 at 9:13 PM, GGarrett said:

I'm with Salad on this one, too. We did crazy things, but never did anything to physically or mentally hurt anyone.

This article describing girls having to recite explicit passages of sexual acts or demonstrate on a "toy" for the enjoyment of a few guys controlling access to the bathrooms on a bus is not "clever clean 'meant no harm' fun" ... it's illegal behavior that costs people their careers and labels them as sexual predators in real life out of college. Imagine sending YOUR daughter or your sister off to a band performance knowing a few morons will be speaking to her that way or forcing her to "demonstrate her abilities" in order to be considered "cool" by them.

NOT cool.

Amen.  

The article posted by the OP comes from a game back in 2013 or 2014, I think, maybe even before that. I remember Brent Mussburger calling the game and referencing the UW band suspension from the game.  He noted that it was quiet because of this and because Ohio State's marching band did not travel that weekend to take part in the game at Camp Randall. 

There is more to this story than what the article states, but it wasn't necessarily the underage drinking and hazing that caused the suspension, but some of the criminal behavior. If this had happened today during the "me too" movement I believe arrests would have been made and charges filed against some of these guys. Wisconsin's MB has been known to do some wild and crazy things, and some are not so nice. Their trumpet line stood around a field crew staff person from Penn State and blew out his ear drums.  The UW band is not permitted on campus at PSU as far as I know. The Stanford band has always been banned from numerous campuses, including the University of Notre Dame. 

Yes, college kids drink (at least most do), they party, they have sex (hopefully legal and consensual), they smoke, they stress, and in general they are trying to figure out the rest of their lives and careers. They make mistakes.  Some we can chalk up as growing pains and needed experiences, but in a few cases we do have criminal behavior.  That's the part of this story, and many others like it, that sadden me.  Ohio State University dealt with the same thing with their band. The director was let go because it was determined he didn't do enough to stop things and report them when he was an assistant.  If you read the full report on the examples of bad behavior, most of them fall under the category of college kids having stupid fun. But a few of them were criminal and that tends to slant the whole situation and those are the things that get reported.  Often the public hears this and thinks the problem is large and wide spread when perhaps it's isolated to a few people.  And in some cases maybe it is widespread. 

The worst case I can think of when it comes to hazing is with the Florida A&M Marching Band where a young drum major was killed on a band bus when he had to play some hazing game of making his way to the back of the bus.  FAMU had to suspend the band for an entire year, faced huge lawsuits, and had to let many directors and staff go. 

[Terri Schehr]

This young person endured some major bullying.  It breaks my heart to read this:  

https://www.reddit.com/r/drumcorps/comments/91j23w/i_didnt_enjoy_my_time_at_my_corps_and_i_dont_know/?st=JK04QX8Q&sh=f033c553

 

[BRASSO]

49 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

This young person endured some major bullying.  It breaks my heart to read this:  

https://www.reddit.com/r/drumcorps/comments/91j23w/i_didnt_enjoy_my_time_at_my_corps_and_i_dont_know/?st=JK04QX8Q&sh=f033c553

 

 This marcher was traumatized during and for many years afterwards with his experience with these bullying behaviors from many of his fellow marchers there, and adult staffers and Corps Director that were seemingly toxic in their relationship with this young marcher at the time. Its makes me both sad and mad at the same time to read of such an experience. This has no place in Drum Corps. Steps need to be taken to make sure it does not happen again.  If it does, DCI HQ itself needs to step in and penalize swiftly and severely any investigation that turns up that these things went on, but either the Corps Mgt put up with it, or was so out of touch with their Corps they claim they were totally oblivious to such cruel and abusive behaviors taking place within their Corps. There is a huge difference between instilling needed proper discipline at times within the organization with youth, and that of clear abusive behaviors with youth. Adults know, or should know, the difference too.  DCI Hg should future pull the membership of any member Corps having future on going episodes such as this described taking place in the future. Such future Corps moving forward from here on in should not exist.  They should fold if this happens anymore, imo. They go against everything good that Drum Corps is supposed to represent in youth development to become stronger, better people, and better future citizens.

Edited July 24, 2018 by BRASSO

[TheAngryBavarian]

I can't help but feel sorry for the victims of these actions. As someone who hasn't experienced this in my hs marching band, I find it frankly stupid that people are so hateful to each other. After all, drum corps/band/winter guard is supposed to be fun, right? 

[MikeN]

1 hour ago, ouooga said:

I realize that's a common sentiment on here, but man, I definitely find myself much more often thinking 'the older I get the more I want to make the activity better.' I mean this 100% from the management side of things, from the top to the bottom. 

Me too.  I consider myself amazingly fortunate to be in that position, even in my small capacity

Mike

[TheAngryBavarian]

7 minutes ago, TheAngryBavarian said:

I can't help but feel sorry for the victims of these actions. As someone who hasn't experienced this in my hs marching band, I find it frankly stupid that people are so hateful to each other. After all, drum corps/band/winter guard is supposed to be fun, right? 

 

Edited July 24, 2018 by TheAngryBavarian