Corps that needed to be put out of misery

[apoch003]

At one time, the Oregon Crusaders had a total of 5 touring members.

Couple years ago they won the championship.

Last year they took fourth in open class at DCI.

It's worth it.

[KeithHall]

You said it all in these two sentences......They want to be in a top 10 drum corps but not in any division III corps. Its all or nothing. Remember in the 60's and 70's when we would stay loyal to our local corps? Some kids went to a top corps but very few. How many of the kids from Blue Devils were from California in 1976? Or Santa Clara Vanguard in 1974? Or Wisconsin with the Madison Scouts in 1975? I was from North Tonawanda, NY and I could have gone to Squires or Greece Cadets but instead stayed with my local corps.

How many kids stay in Garfield Cadets for 10 years? I bet the average member stays in for 3 to 4 years and alot are only in for 1 to 2 years. What do you think the average member of a perennial Open Class corps stays in? Lets say Jersey Surf.

We can point the finger at DCI, we can point the finger at Corps directors, we can point the finger at High School marching bands, we can point the finger at the economy, we can blame show designers, brass instrument manufacturers and we can blame parents! Instead of blaming...find a solution! Every year new and "better" ideas pop up in business and education. Basically they are the same thing with new "buzz" words and a new approach. In education we were forced with No Child Left Behind. Well, children are being left behind and it's not educations fault. Well government gets in the way and tries to clean the education house while their house is in disarray. NCLB was just a new approach but wasn't used properly.

DCI was a new approach in 1972, the savior of drum corps. No more inspections, no more tics. Lets give credit and not take away. A novel idea wouldn't you say? We had the top echelon of corps and we also had a lot of competent A Class corps too. Later on DCI adds shows, takes over shows and forces everyone to play THEIR way. Corps directors bite. Cool idea, we can travel all summer long. "A" Class corps driving in old school buses to Denver. The buses break down, kids are stranded and calls home to NY are made, "I need a plane or bus ticket because all our buses are dead...help!" As the years go on more corps figure out that they can't stay active because of the cost, the high school marching bands take the cue from drum corps and become more competitive. Corps directors are stealing money from the bingo operation. Parents start to rebel against corps directors and try to "takeover" corps. They eventually fall by the way side.

Skip ahead to today. Name a corps and then survey that corps members with questions like...how many years have you been in this corps? Where is your hometown? How many years of drum corps did you march?

Go over to DCA and you see members going to the "winning team." How many members have jumped from their corps to Brigs, Bucs, Cabs or ES in the past several years to try for the RING?

Yes we can blame alot of people but what are we doing to help drum corps? Some of you sponsor members...to march in top 12 corps. Does anyone try to sponsor an Open Class corps? Send your money to those corps who really need it. Give those corps a chance to grow and get better and get educators on their staffs.

I started this thread only because I was looking at scores of the 1972 US Open and started thinking back to some of those corps who were really bad. Some of you made comments like, "the kids really tried hard." I agree with that! I didn't mean it to be hateful because I was in a "not-so-good corps for a while and I stuck it out and we got better...then folded. I saw the same thing with Imperial Regiment, Greece Cadets, Avant Garde, etc. Now all of us that were in NY corps reminisce because we don't have a junior corps to support.

I have been going to Drum Corps shows for over 55 years. What is sad is in the last 20 years I see a lot of very talented kids in the stands as" fans" of drum corps and not "members". They want to be in a top 10 drum corps but not in any division III corps. Its all or nothing . Maybe they dont want to make the commitment. Maybe they cant make the cut to get in. Maybe there are not enough Division I Corps to go arround. The activity has gotten so competitive and specialized that no one wants to be associated with a small corp anymore. The Division I Corps are too expensive to maintain that it is impossible for any organization to start one up compared to 50 years ago when any CYO, Boy Scout Organization,Boys and Girls,PAL...etc.could start one up and compete almost immediately.

When you want to single out any Corps that shouldn't have been on the field.... I think ....well no wonder all these band kids are fans and not marching members the attitude is so critical that it would destroy thier self esteem. The activity has evolved so much that it is putting itself out of buisness. I guess I blame DCI for this.

[CrunchyTenor]

Now all of us that were in NY corps reminisce because we don't have a junior corps to support.

<snippety doo-dah>

Auburn Purple Lancers

Garry in Vegas

[84BDsop]

I'd put Nightfire in the "putting out of it's misery" category...but we kinda took care of that ourselves!

Sometimes I look back at 1996 and marvel that we EVER made the field!

[uncle z]

Devil's advocate here, but when I started in '75 I wouldn't hesitate to say that 3/4 of the corps in existence in Wisconsin at the time probably were worth going to get a show dog while they were on the field. Good thing show tickets were only a couple bucks.

Flame away if you like, but if Ken Kobold got a request for a tape of the 1975 Park Falls Brass Regiment, I'd be pretty confident in stating that it probably came from a member.

[mikecollins86]

Uh.... not even close Mike. There was nothing embarrassing about the '82 Kingsmen. I taught that corps along with Wayne Downey, Tom Float & Bobby Hoffmann. For their first year back, a 28th place finish with a Top 25 hornline was pretty respectable. Listen to the recording on the Kingsmen website and then tell me that was embarrassing. Wow, you're way off base on that statement.

I can vouch for Larrie from a member's perspective. I received great instruction from both Larrie, John Hausey (I can't believe I'm older than he was when he taught me!!) and Rick Lockwood. Of course, Wayne was there and helped us tremendously.

I think the reason we didn't do any better, competitively was because we were almost ALL rookies, with no corps experience. Also, some of us were transplants (my best friend was a sax player, learning trumpet for the first time) I believe Jeff Graff (marched Raiders I believe?) and a mello player (name escapes me, marched Guardsmen??) and our 'ringer' Jeff Presley from Blue Devils were the only vets in the corps. Presley, although a great player, was not really very helpful as a vet, but Jeff Graff and the mello player tried their best to help us rooks catch a clue.

I think the biggest legacy of that corps is how many of us went on to Blue Devils and Santa Clara to become soloists, snares, etc.

That desire to be the best and hunger for excellence was given to us in the 1982 Kingsmen.

Now if you want to talk about the 'upper' staff deciding to leave us at Niagra Falls for hours and hours with a loaf of bread and jars of peanut butter and jelly knowing none of us had a money on the way home from tour?......hmmmmmm......we were so bored, we actually took out our horns and practiced...(at least I did...26 years, less brain cells to remember)

At any rate, I will always be grateful to Wayne, Larrie, John and the other staff that helped mold me into the player I ended up.

BTW, 1982 was the first year I played trumpet (I was a mediocre trombonist b4...) and most of my 'fundamentals' as a brass player come from Wayne, Larrie, John and Rick.

Thanks, guys!!!

Mike Collins

Kingsmen 82, 83

Blue Devils 84, 86

Very tired Daddy of 2 boys (5 and 3)

[84BDsop]

I believe Jeff Graff (marched Raiders I believe?)

I never knew Graff marched K-men! I marched with him at SDSU before I did BD. I thought he was always a SCV guy. Small world!

[audiodb]

You said it all in these two sentences......They want to be in a top 10 drum corps but not in any division III corps. Its all or nothing. Remember in the 60's and 70's when we would stay loyal to our local corps? Some kids went to a top corps but very few. How many of the kids from Blue Devils were from California in 1976? Or Santa Clara Vanguard in 1974? Or Wisconsin with the Madison Scouts in 1975? I was from North Tonawanda, NY and I could have gone to Squires or Greece Cadets but instead stayed with my local corps.

How many kids stay in Garfield Cadets for 10 years? I bet the average member stays in for 3 to 4 years and alot are only in for 1 to 2 years. What do you think the average member of a perennial Open Class corps stays in? Lets say Jersey Surf.

We can point the finger at DCI, we can point the finger at Corps directors, we can point the finger at High School marching bands, we can point the finger at the economy, we can blame show designers, brass instrument manufacturers and we can blame parents! Instead of blaming...find a solution!

The solution is to level the playing field...make competition unpredictable. Can't go ring-chasing if you can't predict the winning corps ahead of time.

The problem is the incredible amount of resistance there is to any change that would make competition closer or less predictable. The Dan Acheson thread is just the latest example....

[CrunchyTenor]

I think the biggest legacy of that corps is how many of us went on to Blue Devils and Santa Clara to become soloists, snares, etc.

You're right, Mike, that it was a legacy for that corps, but I have to think: What did all of you going on to bigger and better things do for the Kingsmen? Absolutely not picking a fight, but worth considering.

Garry in Vegas

[apoch003]

You're right, Mike, that it was a legacy for that corps, but I have to think: What did all of you going on to bigger and better things do for the Kingsmen? Absolutely not picking a fight, but worth considering.

Garry in Vegas

I'd marry you, if I could Garry.