DCA to DCI

[Donny Drum Corps]

Having seen all of the open and world class DCI corps and the A class and open class DCA corps.....I believe the best the Bucs's could have placed in 2008 is ahead of Pioneer and the Mandarins. It's a bit tough to know if Buc's drums would be have beaten SCV Cadets or not....close.

As someone mentioned....you are comparing apples and oranges...they are both sort of round....but that's about it.

PS

This is not intended to take anything away from the Buc's....there is no doubt they are a very high quality corps....

I believe you are correct with your mention of placement from last year... Maybe one or two more corps more than the two you mentioned, perhaps. I also believe that Pioneer would have been in the middle of the pack in DCA top ten actually. The variety in programming of the DCA corps is what makes it as entertaining as it is.

(sigh)... I miss the early nineties...when the corps with the most heart THAT NIGHT would win the show. Could be Empire, Bush, Cabs, Crusaders, Steel City, Westshoremen, Hurcs...which ever corps came out on fire would win the show. Every corps got much better weekly because of the competition. There was DCA east and DCA west back then, LOL.

Crusaders with Corky in charge and Beth on the podium, SCA with Cooley, Morey and Scott Koter circa 1990 could light the whole stadium up. So could all of the aforementioned corps. To beat ANY of those corps, you had to be really good...of course I am partial to Empire when we finally found our way to the winners circle. However, you couldnt win DCA if you had a weak caption.

It doesnt seem like it is that way anymore. Hopefully I am wrong about this. Competiton like that makes the circuit better IMHO. With the resurgence of the Hurcs, MBI's last years finish and Empire still maintain their top three status...maybe these days will return.

Donny

Edited December 30, 2008 by donnymusic

[Martybucs]

i'll throw it out there...

Why Would Any DCA corps Want to....

HAHAHAH!

[pito'evil]

I'm not attacking you here, but indulge me for a sec.

How does it benefit either circuit to have a homogenized DCA product that tries to be "DCI Lite"?

Case in point: I wasn't terribly familiar with DCA corps, but I got the 2006 and 2007 DVD's for Christmas from my sister-in-law since they were only 25 bucks a pop. I found myself watching those far more than the 2008 DCI DVD's over the past week.

Why?

I found things that I hadn't seen in DCI in years, or, in some cases, ever: the wailing Statesmen sops of Pero and Price, the Caballeros "RUMP", and so on. . .I took the time to read up on the corps histories, the personalities therein, and now I'm headed to a DCA Finals for the first time in 2009 after years of sitting on the fence and wondering if DCA was where I should be. I know now that it is after immersing myself in it the past few days. . . even my wife (who knows nothing about music) was taken with "how different it is from DCI".

Not "better". Not "worse". But, "different".

That, and the "entertainment first" mantra, is, IMO, DCA's draw.

I think it's cool to have another circuit full of its own history, its own quirks and its own media that I can get into. If the majority of corps moved towards a less-well executed aping of the junior product, it would diminish the DCA brand, IMO.

If there wasn't the Statesmen wailing, the Cabs unique show concepts and all the other things that make DCA its own animal, frankly . . .I'd be a little distraught.

While I see certain corps like the Buccaneers and Brigadiers borrowing from the junior side somewhat (I'm not going to argue the points that some of the Bucs championship shows are more like junior tribute shows done really, really well . . and that's cool with me. Their 2009 show concept sounds awesome . . .), I don't think that it's in the circuits best interest to make everyone fit a certain mold, as the junior circuit seems to in some instances.

Anyway, I can understand your point-of-view: people who work both sides of the fence might feel like their hands are tied a bit creatively with no access to amping cool pit sounds, or adding electronics or whatever . . .but I think there's some validity in letting the circuit go its own path.

Who knows . . .as todays marchers age out and come into DCA, perhaps amplification will show up in five or ten years . . . or maybe those that age into DCA in the future will decide that they want a different marching experience from the junior one and keep amps out for the next twenty or thirty years.

When I watched the "Behind The Scenes" features on the DVD's, I kept noticing how everyone . . .from Allen Buell, to Fred Windish, Gil Silva and on through all the drum majors all made sure to acknowledge the audience, the fans, and mention the entertainment factor of their shows or the circuit in general.

Whatever happens to DCA, I sincerely hope that will never, ever change. . . 'cause it sure as hell drew me in.

Signed,

DCA Newbie

I hear what you are saying and I am all for entertainment and separate identities. My biggest fear is that DCA will end up falling behind to a point there it is truly no more than the circuit of yesteryear. With DCI, WGI and hell even BOA (sorry I’ll say 7 hail maries for using the cursed circuit name later) pushing forward the way they are, DCA will have to do one of three choices…

1) Do back to the VFW days and ways (I don’t think that would go over very well with the new blood coming in)

2) Go full entertainment (and by that I mean like HSBC style)

3) Play eternal catch-up (rehashing Jr. corps shows from 1-10 years ago)

I for one would rather see DCA becoming innovators (or @ least staying with the pack). Then again, there is a limit to innovation. (IE – WW, strings instruments, electronic non-synth keyboards, etc).

What really makes me is the majority of folks really put DCA over as being for the fans and (in a way) by the fans. That is all well and good, I admit there is something about seeing the crowd going bananas for you… high 5-ing each other, in tears, and the lot. Nevertheless, at the end of the day the majority of the time the corps that pulls a DCI (in show design, technique, cleanliness, etc) is the one going home with the gold.

I could go on but that is for another time and another debate. There has to be a balance though. I think the following quote says it best.

“Without tradition, art is a flock of sheep without a shepherd. Without innovation, it is a corpse.” – Winston Churchill

[VOReason]

Normally I would laugh with you but the line between many of the DCA corps and the DCI corps is getting thinner by the day.

You must be looking at that line from outer space!!

[jojo]

I agree. Senior corps is a totally different arena. Someone told me if you had all the DCA top 10 corps compete with DCI top World class corps, DCA corps would line up about somewhere around 18th and on down under the juniors. Senior corps stands for something different. Yeah, its competitive, but its intended for people with "lives" to participate in drum corps.

DCI corps members live only to play. Once they age out, then they get to their lives. Most members of corps like BD, SCV, etc are full time college students who dont really have to worry about things like "what am i going to do with my life?" Those kids are able to commit their lives for months on end to doing one thing that they love. I'm sure there are the few stragglers in DCI that bust their butts to survive outside of drum corps, but the way it works nowadays, you really cant do anything else during the summer.

Senior corps are for people that may not want to, or may not be able to commit their lives to performing. But, you'd better believe that the limited time we have to practice, we put our souls into it. Then, after practicing and performing, we have rent, bills, etc due. So, I think the thought of which corps should kick out its aged-out members to cross over is kinda backwards. My question is, which junior corps would embrace a new idea, knock down the age barrier, and come over to the dark side?!?!?!?!

I agree. Sorta'. Except I don't think of DCA as senior corps (admittedly it seems a bit more so on the west coast then the east???). I've run into a number of what I've come to think of as DCA graduates. They sort of cut their teeth in all age and take what they learn up (yes I said up) into DCI. I'm reasonably convinced that the Renegades (and some of their Cali counterparts?) are relatively unique in DCA in that the majority of them (us) have already been really successful in DCI and aren't necessarily trying to repeat or rehash that experience, or take new-found skills elsewhere. Instead, DCA while similar in the best of ways, is an entirely new experience, on very adult terms -- which includes jobs, kids, families, limited rehearsal time, heavy doses of glucosamine chondroitin, going on in the daylight, etc. This hasn't precluded the 'Gades from adding to the ranks of DCI by raising a few yungins' and that's great but it's not as much the norm as what seems to take place in the east.

I've always said the top of DCA is very similar to the bottom of DCI ... and I mean that as a compliment ... and I think a lot of that is due to age. Youth makes many things possible visually. Even so, I think, for the most part, DCA corps would pretty much get a mudhole stomped in them using DCI's criteria and sheets. The Cali all-age corps know that better than anyone.

It's not a bad thing, it's just a thing. There's plenty of room for both, they're not mutually exclusive and, in fact, it's a great symbiotic relationship.

I think the what really matters is did you have a great time doing your best? I sure did!

[Martybucs]

I've never seen a DCA corps do a DCI tribute show.

I've only seen DCA corps do DCA shows.

[jojo]

I've never seen a DCA corps do a DCI tribute show.

I've only seen DCA corps do DCA shows.

Hmmmm. I think the Cabelleros tribute to the Muchachos counts as a DCA tribute to a DCI show, no?

[Martybucs]

Hmmmm. I think the Cabelleros tribute to the Muchachos counts as a DCA tribute to a DCI show, no?

Yes, but DCI means under the age of 21, no?

[jojo]

Yes, but DCI means under the age of 21, no?

I get your sarcasm ... but not your point.

[Martybucs]

I get your sarcasm ... but not your point.

That wasn't sarcasm - just a little joke.

My point is: I never saw that show, so I can still say I never saw a DCA corps do a DCI tribute show.

However, I took the original statement in a post farther back to mean that any time a DCA corps happens to play a song or do a maneuver, or whatever that resembles something that a DCI corps has done, then DCA is copying DCI and I don't agree with that point of view.

Also, it never works the other way around. Say when Cavies played Firebird, did anyone say, "Hey, they're copying Buccaneers!"

A show that is called a tribute, I guess is a tribute, but I didn't see it.