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bersurkman

Cavies flute player

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What DIDN'T generate much discussion was the huge amount of IMO illegal signal processing used in the amplification to create the reverb effect for the whistle and the dulcimer.

that's because there were no "signals"... that's good ol' fashioned echo baby!

Edited by L1STEN2311

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First of all, anyone who things a slide whistle is a percussion instrument and not a wind instrument needs to have their head examined. I could care less what the "actual" classification is. A percussion instrument by definition is an instrument that is struck by an object of some kind to create its sound ie. drums, marimbas, vibes, etc. It was a flute plain and simple.

The Slide Whistle, The Bird Whistle, the Police Whistle, The siren are all Percussion accessories. Just like many other percussion accessories which do not require hitting something with a stick. ie, Jingle bells, bowing a keyboard bar, wind chimes, etc...

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The Slide Whistle, The Bird Whistle, the Police Whistle, The siren are all Percussion accessories. Just like many other percussion accessories which do not require hitting something with a stick. ie, Jingle bells, bowing a keyboard bar, wind chimes, etc...

Jingle bells are a type of rattle, one of the subsets of percussion. Seeds or some type of ball is inside the instrument and stikes the shell to make a sound. A police whistle could qualify this way as it contains a small ball that rattles when you blow the whistle.

Wind chimes are stuck in some way, your hand, a wooden clapper, or against each other.

I understand what you're getting at but whistles are not percussion instruments just because that's who usually plays them.

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The Slide Whistle, The Bird Whistle, the Police Whistle, The siren are all Percussion accessories. Just like many other percussion accessories which do not require hitting something with a stick. ie, Jingle bells, bowing a keyboard bar, wind chimes, etc...

I don't know if I should laugh at this or not. :cool:

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I don't know if I should laugh at this or not. :cool:

Why would you laugh? Either I'm missing something (entirely possible) or you are in that bowing things is very common.

So is the arguement that all uses of slide whistle, and there were a couple last year in DCI alone and numerous through the years (Almost every show I've been in since 2002 actually....) should be illegal? Or is the eyebrow only being raised because Cavies found someone extremely talented with the thing and found a way to work it very well into their show? I know a rack player in another top 12 corps who was almost killed many times during pit rehearsals for trying to imititate the Cavies slide whistle player...poorly. That was talent on a percussion instrument. Sorry purists, but effects like calls, crank sirens, and such, are recognized as percussion instruments. And yes, I too know what the basic definition of a percussion instrument is. I also know some of the many things that are considered in the percussion family that don't neccesarily fit into the definition.

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Since corps have used Police Sirens(Suncoast 84, SCV 91, Madison 05), Whistles(VK 89, Madison 95, Madison 05), Slide Whistles(Madison 99), and other "wind activated" instruments(Madison 88 - that funny looking thing that makes the cartoony "Weeeeeee!" sound, Madison 99 - Duck Call, rubber ducky?), it seems fine with me.

From what I think I understand, the slide whistle in the 08 Cavaliers show was just a slide whistle with the player overblowing to make it "jump" in pitch. I could be wrong, but that's what I think I remember. Slide whistles are perfectly legal, so I see no problem here. What we have with the Cavaliers is what I like to see in DCI. Innovation without expanding the rules: how are you going to create a flute sound without breaking any rules?

The Dulcimer(is that what it is?) is a bit more difficult for me to understand since you could call it both a string & percussion instrument. By this inclusion, technically you could drag a piano onto the field and use it if you wanted.

Edited by NR_Ohiobando

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Slide whistles have been used in pits LONG before amplification. They are hardly a concert wind instrument like, say, an actual flute.

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that's because there were no "signals"... that's good ol' fashioned echo baby!

If the flute was in a cathedral or a grotto or even a shower room, that would be good ol' fashioned echo. What the Cavies used was good ol' fashioned electronic reverb, which is an electronic effect outside the bounds of simple amplification sanctioned in the DCI rules as of 2008.

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Since corps have used Police Sirens(Suncoast 84, SCV 91, Madison 05), Whistles(VK 89, Madison 95, Madison 05), Slide Whistles(Madison 99), and other "wind activated" instruments(Madison 88 - that funny looking thing that makes the cartoony "Weeeeeee!" sound, Madison 99 - Duck Call, rubber ducky?), it seems fine with me.

From what I think I understand, the slide whistle in the 08 Cavaliers show was just a slide whistle with the player overblowing to make it "jump" in pitch. I could be wrong, but that's what I think I remember. Slide whistles are perfectly legal, so I see no problem here. What we have with the Cavaliers is what I like to see in DCI. Innovation without expanding the rules: how are you going to create a flute sound without breaking any rules?

The Dulcimer(is that what it is?) is a bit more difficult for me to understand since you could call it both a string & percussion instrument. By this inclusion, technically you could drag a piano onto the field and use it if you wanted.

Actually I believe the Piano is technically a percussion instrument since you strike the keys to make a hammer strike the strings. so yes a piano could technically be played in the pit under the current rules. and with amplification you could mic that sucker and really be able to hear it. wouldn't it have been cool to actually have someone play the angry young man piano part during the Cavies 2007 production?

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If you took a poll of classical musicians - pianists especially - they would probably not classify the piano as a percussion instrument, even though it clearly qualifes as one given it's method of playing. The reason for this is obvious. Percussion is considered by these same people as an *inferior* part of the orchestra, while the piano is considered the most demanding of all the instruments in the orchestra to play well.

So no mixing the superior with the inferior.

This is along the same lines as when we learned in school that Europe was somehow a separate continent from Asia - even though the two are linked by land. Probably this is due to "huffy white Europeans" not wanting to be associated too closely with those uncivilized, mostly non-white Asians.

Tim

(a descendent of "huffy white Europeans")

Edited by Tim Coffey

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