idontwan2know Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 All the squatting, pelvic thrusts and mojo in the world will not benefit your playing in any way whatsoever. There is no additional "abdominal pressure" generated by these moves that cannot be generated standing up straight and even if there were it would only make you more likely to defecate and/or squeeze an infant out of your uterus, as those are the functions of the muscles in question. This is one of the more annoying myths out there. Proper and selective application does look cool, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh161 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 I have talked to a few people recently who are not scream trumpet players, but have some education in anatomy. There do seem to be scientific back up for the whole extra ab tension idea. As we play into the higher register of instruments there will be more resistance, right? Our diaphragm and abs may be incredibly powerful, but with the added pressure there should be more force available to your diaphragm. I did a little bit of an experiment today as well. MY band director is a french horn player, as he was playing a piece on his french horn i watched his posture. As he was playing he naturally leaned back as he got higher and higher his register Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh161 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Also check out the maynard video posted< his analogy makes perfect sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontwan2know Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Added pressure may or may not be beneficial, depending on who you listen to. I tend to think not. But the motions in question don't generate any. I can generate every bit of tension in my abdominal cavity standing straight up that you do when you do all those gyrations. If compressing the lungs via posture was an effective technique to help brass playing, the best way to achieve it would be to collapse your shoulders, tuck your elbows in and bend down. Leaning back doesn't accomplish anything. As for Maynard...one of the all time great trumpet players, but not a doctor, nor an expert on anatomy or physiology. Read "Song and Wind" about the teachings of Arnold Jacobs. An incredible musician, father of modern brass pedagogy and someone who did a great deal of study of the anatomy of brass playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I have always wondered what would happen if you were hooked up to those body suits that the EMT'S use to push the blood up to the upper part of the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Also check out the maynard video posted< his analogy makes perfect sense Yes for those that did not watch 30 seconds into the video,,Maynard goes into a full explanation to how its done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I have talked to a few people recently who are not scream trumpet players, but have some education in anatomy. There do seem to be scientific back up for the whole extra ab tension idea. As we play into the higher register of instruments there will be more resistance, right? Our diaphragm and abs may be incredibly powerful, but with the added pressure there should be more force available to your diaphragm. I did a little bit of an experiment today as well. MY band director is a french horn player, as he was playing a piece on his french horn i watched his posture. As he was playing he naturally leaned back as he got higher and higher his register The diaphragm has nothing to do with it. The diaphragm is an involuntary muscle that only moves in one direction: to expand the lungs. It has nothing whatsoever to do with expelling air, and trying to "increase pressure" to it will do no one any good. Analogies are fine, but the reality of human physiology precludes the notion that any such body movement will have a real positive effect on playing. It looks cool, and in a lot of people it makes them waste a lot of energy they could be using playing, but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Older Younger Guy Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I actuallly have breathing practice material that shows and says that leaning back does help! OYG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I don't doubt it. There's still a lot of misinformation being taught as brass pedagogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trptjock Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Here is my take on the "Lean Back". I am using my years of experience as a performer and teacher for my answer so take it for what it is worth. You may not agree with what I have to say and that is fine. These observations are of my own playing in what I had to struggle with and eventually overcome in order to get the results I have at my disposal now. "Does this help the trumpet player play higher notes? In some ways YES, in some ways NO." YES, because it does provide the body with another means of tension and compression to move the air through the horn as you play. Those that "Lean Back" are doing so by means of a specific breathing technique called "The Complete Yoga Breath". Maynard Ferguson was a big proponent of this method of breathing and he taught it to the trumpet players in his band and has become a means of sound production and compression ever since. Some take it to the extremes and put undue stress on the body by leaning back. This stress usually comes from mouthpiece pressure on the lips and strain on the lower back muscles. Plus you are not providing the body with any means of stability as your body weight is away from your "Center". NO, because those players that have mastered the art of altissimo playing have done so through practice, selection of equipment and a drive to make that aspect of their technique more profound. Look at people like Roger Ingram, Wayne Bergeron, Cat Anderson, Allen Vizzutti, Bobby Shew, Lin Nicholson, Jim Manley, Scott Englebright, Patrick Hession and Arturo Sandoval (amongst others), these players don't lean back when they play in the upper register, but they do use compression, somewhat modified equipment (within reason, some players play on stock mouthpieces) and a smaller aperture in order to gain the results they are looking for. The body does need to be centered over the feet in order to gain stability and balance. If the body is compromised in one way or another, then it is no longer an efficient vehicle for playing. Just like your band director has told you: "Sit up Straight". We teach this for a reason. Maynard Story. This story is true (and has been corroborated by Bobby Shew) from the various resources that I have come across in my playing career as well as the teachers that I have studied under. He did have a very distinct ability to play in the upper register with great power, stamina and control and made it look easy. As he began to be more in the public eye, he would baffle many audience members in that his horn was adjusted in order for him to play that way. By a recommendation of his wife, she told him to make it look harder and more flashy. If you watch videos on YOUTUBE of younger Maynard and compare them to older Maynard, the change is not drastic but noticeable. Plus as Maynard aged, he wasn't playing the same way he did when he was in his 20's or 30's. But when he did play, it was electric. High notes and altissimo register only comes from one thing and that is practice on exercises for that register. Mouthpiece selection is equally important and should not be taken lightly. I know trumpet players that switch mouthpieces for the upper register (as I am one of them), but do it primarily for the sound quality change and ease of that particular register. I have adopted a technique of practicing the upper register of the horn on my "Symphonic/Classical" mouthpiece (which is usually larger rim diameter and deeper cup depth). If I am able to play in the altissimo register on my "Legit" mouthpiece, then switching over to my "Lead" mouthpiece only makes the sound quality change and the ease of play that much easier. This can also hold true for playing on piccolo trumpet vs. lead trumpet, but that is another discussion entirely. When I play in the upper register my body does tense up a little bit (including my back muscles, abdominal, chest, lips and shoulders-to an extent). They have to. You are not going to play a "Double C" with the same setting you will have for a "Low C". The dynamics of what all is involved in those two notes that are four octaves apart are quite varied. Lip tension, airflow, air speed, aperture size, mouthpiece pressure and sound quality are all going to be different for each pitch. So don't expect the same feeling for both because it is just not possible. Well, it isn't possible for me and my playing up to this point. There are trumpet players that look like they are not working when they move into the upper register because they have mastered the art of making all the muscle groups move the way they need to efficiently and accurately. Using pressure is a starting point, but NOT the ending point. You will eventually want to connect the various registers to make the notes more "Usable" instead of "only under these circumstances". Because then the horn is limited in its flow and the music's connection with the audience. Take it for what it is worth. These are my opinions on how to play in the upper register and its relevance to the original topic of "Leaning Back". I now open the flood gates for intense criticism, speculation, dissection and ridicule which has become commonplace here on DCP. Words to live by. Practice doesn't make Perfect Practice makes Permanent! Perfect Practice makes Perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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