End of DCI Open Class

[HardCorp]

Look inward dude. What kind of experience were you providing? Quality education? Equipment? Organization? I am thinking if you weren't charging membership fees kids go a sense they were getting what they paid for. Why don't more kids march? Duh. M-O-N-E-Y. Cheap airfare has lead to national membership of the top 12.

Tell the kids in California, Oregon, Florida, and Masachusetts that they are lazy. They will march right over you and laugh as you continue to whine.

I appreciate your kind words. I didnt even charge my kids anything, and they still wouldnt show up. I had just started putting kids on the field when it fell apart. Giving up 3 years and all the $ i would have spent on college is enough of a sacrifice to prove to me that kids are lazy. Kids parents are lazy. It could be a regional thing, but it could be bigger than that. I think its a generational thing. Why do you think the big corps have to recruit all over the US? If they just took kids from their own area, every top 12 corps would be gone in a year.....

[U27athecopa]

I have a lot of respect for DCI. They have accomplished so much, and yet I often wonder, with so much riding on a handful of World Class Corps, what will happen if these corps reach critical lows regarding resources and subsequent membership problems based upon the economy. Only time will tell.

Nothing is "growing" right now. No one has the balls to commit their credit and their resources to a huge program, relying on finding funding and people to perform and participate as staff. If someone decided to start a drum corps, or "buy out" a currently failing drum corps, they would have to have an unending blank check, that would never pay itself back. Also, they would need to expect that the program would SUCK competitively for a few years if it got off the ground at all. This is not 1986. This is not the world and the time where a person with deep pockets can just start his own personal powerhouse drum corps.

Having ran my own, I can tell you that the biggest issue is finding people to perform. I spent 3 years committing my entire life to developing a program and the biggest corps I ever performed, in a parade mind you, was 14 people. Kids these days are just lazy, and they don't feel like committing to anything that isn't guaranteed to win. Unless new circuits are created who FOCUS on letting small corps compete closer to home, all small drum corps will die off. DCI has no interest in the Open Class because they don't sell tickets to shows. DCI packs the house for the top 12 corps and that's it. All this talk of creating new circuits is great, but it needs to be a national program where every region has its own tour and championships, where corps can travel to maybe 6 or 7 shows through the summer, and compete in a sectional championship.

[MikeD]

I appreciate your kind words. I didnt even charge my kids anything, and they still wouldnt show up. I had just started putting kids on the field when it fell apart. Giving up 3 years and all the $ i would have spent on college is enough of a sacrifice to prove to me that kids are lazy. Kids parents are lazy. It could be a regional thing, but it could be bigger than that. I think its a generational thing. Why do you think the big corps have to recruit all over the US? If they just took kids from their own area, every top 12 corps would be gone in a year.....

Top corps recruit from all over the place because they have fan bases all over the place. In my era, pre DCI, I knew very little about corps outside of the NJ metro area. I would read about them in DCN...I might pick up a record with some of them on it, but my day-in-day-out exposure was to the local corps. BS, St Lucy's, Garfield, Muchachos...these were the main class 'A' corps I saw back then...plus visits by St Kevin's, BAC, 27th...etc.

Also...national travelling was FAR more expensive than today, based on salaries being paid back then as compared to flight costs.

Today, HS kids here in NJ see and and love BD, Cavies, Crown...etc..to name corps from a wide range of geographical areas. They want to march with the corps they love, not just any corps.

I feel bad that your time and $$$ efforts failed, but to use that failure as 'proof' that kids (and parents???) are lazy just doesn't compute to me.

[84BDsop]

Top corps recruit from all over the place because they have fan bases all over the place. In my era, pre DCI, I knew very little about corps outside of the NJ metro area. I would read about them in DCN...I might pick up a record with some of them on it, but my day-in-day-out exposure was to the local corps. BS, St Lucy's, Garfield, Muchachos...these were the main class 'A' corps I saw back then...plus visits by St Kevin's, BAC, 27th...etc.

Also...national travelling was FAR more expensive than today, based on salaries being paid back then as compared to flight costs.

Today, HS kids here in NJ see and and love BD, Cavies, Crown...etc..to name corps from a wide range of geographical areas. They want to march with the corps they love, not just any corps.

I feel bad that your time and $$$ efforts failed, but to use that failure as 'proof' that kids (and parents???) are lazy just doesn't compute to me.

I would tend to agree. With both Nightfire in the 90s and En Garde more recently, I found the major factors were too many other distractions and finances....especially with En Garde. A lot of the kids had trouble with the tour fees, even low as they were (which is the major reason we decided to put the corps on hiatus....after the economy recovers, that may remove that barrier).

The kids i DID have worked very hard, especially in dealing with trying to make a very small group work.

A bunch of lazy kids of any size would not have done what they did the one truly good day we had, when I was the only staffer present, and they got 16 drill sets down, all set off the top of my head, and got it to a pretty performable level.

[Stellathediningdiva]

Nothing is "growing" right now. No one has the balls to commit their credit and their resources to a huge program, relying on finding funding and people to perform and participate as staff. If someone decided to start a drum corps, or "buy out" a currently failing drum corps, they would have to have an unending blank check, that would never pay itself back. Also, they would need to expect that the program would SUCK competitively for a few years if it got off the ground at all. This is not 1986. This is not the world and the time where a person with deep pockets can just start his own personal powerhouse drum corps.

Having ran my own, I can tell you that the biggest issue is finding people to perform. I spent 3 years committing my entire life to developing a program and the biggest corps I ever performed, in a parade mind you, was 14 people. Kids these days are just lazy, and they don't feel like committing to anything that isn't guaranteed to win. Unless new circuits are created who FOCUS on letting small corps compete closer to home, all small drum corps will die off. DCI has no interest in the Open Class because they don't sell tickets to shows. DCI packs the house for the top 12 corps and that's it. All this talk of creating new circuits is great, but it needs to be a national program where every region has its own tour and championships, where corps can travel to maybe 6 or 7 shows through the summer, and compete in a sectional championship.

Ummm, may I politely disagree?

Check out www.legendspaa.org

[HardCorp]

Nice.

Ummm, may I politely disagree?

Check out www.legendspaa.org

[ussglassman]

Look inward dude. What kind of experience were you providing? Quality education? Equipment? Organization? I am thinking if you weren't charging membership fees kids go a sense they were getting what they paid for. Why don't more kids march? Duh. M-O-N-E-Y. Cheap airfare has lead to national membership of the top 12.

Tell the kids in California, Oregon, Florida, and Masachusetts that they are lazy. They will march right over you and laugh as you continue to whine.

I dont know who you are, but how dare you? You dont know what kind of equipment, instruction, anything I was providing for my program. I started a program which didn't have a lot of resources, and to people who consider to "success" to be simply titled BLUE DEVILS, yeah, my program wasnt that great. But, I tried, I made the effort, and I chose to give it up because I saw that there just wasnt enough outside support or interest in maintaining it. But, my measure of success is that quite a few kids were exposed to music in a way they wouldnt have been otherwise. They were given a chance to perform, to learn, to make friends. Please check this out and I expect a full attack when you have reviewed it.

www.pacificlegend.8m.com

Oh, and BTW, I didn't charge the kids anything because THEY COULDN'T AFFORD IT!!!! I paid for it all out of my own pocket. So, take that along with your "they paid for what they got" comment........

Edited April 28, 2009 by ussglassman

[ussglassman]

I dont know who you are, but how dare you? You dont know what kind of equipment, instruction, anything I was providing for my program. I started a program which didn't have a lot of resources, and to people who consider to "success" to be simply titled BLUE DEVILS, yeah, my program wasnt that great. But, I tried, I made the effort, and I chose to give it up because I saw that there just wasnt enough outside support or interest in maintaining it. But, my measure of success is that quite a few kids were exposed to music in a way they wouldnt have been otherwise. They were given a chance to perform, to learn, to make friends. Please check this out and I expect a full attack when you have reviewed it.

www.pacificlegend.8m.com

Oh, and BTW, I didn't charge the kids anything because THEY COULDN'T AFFORD IT!!!! I paid for it all out of my own pocket. So, take that along with your "they paid for what they got" comment........

Oh, and one more bit of info I'm sure you don't care to know, I was 15 years old when I marched in the Mandarins in 1999. There was no way for me to afford to go back the next year, so I sold the tuba my mom worked overtime to buy for me and bought a set of G BUGLES. (Thank you Citations) I spent 3 stressful years, from age 16 to 19 working to develop a performing ensemble. We competed in 7 parades during that time, and about 20 other various performances. We never made it to the DCI level, obviously, but we were growing alongside a new senior corps at the time, the River City Regiment. In fact, Pacific Legend was on the street performing 2 years before RCR, and quite a few ideas were traded back and forth including their "chef's jacket" uniforms.

I had a core group of about 6 kids that stayed on from year to year. The largest group we ever had was in the 2002 St. Patrick's Day Parade in Old Sacramento, where we marched 14 kids...thats right folks....14. We traditionally marched between 6 and 7 horns, 2-5 percussionists, and when we were lucky, we had 4 or 5 colorguard. Our biggest achievement was when we traveled to Reno, NV the summer of 2002 and performed in the Rodeo Festival Parade there. We had 6 horns, 2 drums, a DM, and 2 banner carriers. About a month later, I received a plaque which still hangs on my wall entitled "PACIFIC LEGEND DRUM AND BUGLE CORPS, FIRST PLACE OUT OF STATE BAND." We were one of 4 out of state bands, the only drum and bugle corps, and of course the smallest of them all. We also had developed a healthy cross-town rivalry with the Sacramento Youth Band who was there that day, a renowned group over 50 years old and over 50 members strong. How we did it, I have no idea. We were loud, we enjoyed ourselves, and we all went to Circus Circus Casino afterwards for buffet dinner and about an hour of arcade time before we loaded into my car, my mom's car, and my stepdad's car, and went home.

I invested roughly $4000 of my own money, basically, enough to put me through college, into creating a drum and bugle corps. I know it wasnt much. I know I could have done more had I done this or that. The model I had to go off of though, was the maniacs out there who take out a $1,000,000 mortgage to buy the finest instruments, the most state of the art facility, the most powerful new semi truck, and the most knowledgeable instructors in the activity.......only to have 15 or 20 kids show up. Then, they "fold" within 2 years and an ambitious team of people are now stuck with a lifetime of horrible credit and a miserable corporate failure over their heads. I went at it from the opposite angle. It would have worked, had I not been 19 years old and had ambitions of my own, such as....well, life, money, and everything else that a 19 year old kid wants to do with their time.

So, did I create a failure of a program? Not in my opinion. I had my own equipment truck, I owned every single piece of equipment we used. We had over 30 horns, enough refurbished percussion equipment for 4 basses, 3 snares and 2 quads. We had a nice set of homemade (....omg, you mean, not CESARIO??!?!) uniforms, and enough colorguard flags for 12 guard. We had roughly 70 kids come through the program in 3 years. Why couldnt we retain them? Because we werent as big as the Blue Devils. Because our horns had these funky rotor-valve thingies on them. Because Wayne Downey wasnt our brass tech. Because, because, because, they all had their own reasons. But, I did something that no kid at 18 or 19 would have the guts to do. With no outside support whatsoever, I started my own drum and bugle corps which performed and survived for 3 years.

Edited April 28, 2009 by ussglassman

[Dir_en_X]

Tell the kids in California, Oregon, Florida, and Massachusetts that they are lazy. They will march right over you and laugh as you continue to whine.

I resent that remark! I know I'm lazy!

[sunguard]

Oh, and one more bit of info I'm sure you don't care to know, I was 15 years old when I marched in the Mandarins in 1999. There was no way for me to afford to go back the next year, so I sold the tuba my mom worked overtime to buy for me and bought a set of G BUGLES. (Thank you Citations) I spent 3 stressful years, from age 16 to 19 working to develop a performing ensemble. We competed in 7 parades during that time, and about 20 other various performances. We never made it to the DCI level, obviously, but we were growing alongside a new senior corps at the time, the River City Regiment. In fact, Pacific Legend was on the street performing 2 years before RCR, and quite a few ideas were traded back and forth including their "chef's jacket" uniforms.

I had a core group of about 6 kids that stayed on from year to year. The largest group we ever had was in the 2002 St. Patrick's Day Parade in Old Sacramento, where we marched 14 kids...thats right folks....14. We traditionally marched between 6 and 7 horns, 2-5 percussionists, and when we were lucky, we had 4 or 5 colorguard. Our biggest achievement was when we traveled to Reno, NV the summer of 2002 and performed in the Rodeo Festival Parade there. We had 6 horns, 2 drums, a DM, and 2 banner carriers. About a month later, I received a plaque which still hangs on my wall entitled "PACIFIC LEGEND DRUM AND BUGLE CORPS, FIRST PLACE OUT OF STATE BAND." We were one of 4 out of state bands, the only drum and bugle corps, and of course the smallest of them all. We also had developed a healthy cross-town rivalry with the Sacramento Youth Band who was there that day, a renowned group over 50 years old and over 50 members strong. How we did it, I have no idea. We were loud, we enjoyed ourselves, and we all went to Circus Circus Casino afterwards for buffet dinner and about an hour of arcade time before we loaded into my car, my mom's car, and my stepdad's car, and went home.

I invested roughly $4000 of my own money, basically, enough to put me through college, into creating a drum and bugle corps. I know it wasnt much. I know I could have done more had I done this or that. The model I had to go off of though, was the maniacs out there who take out a $1,000,000 mortgage to buy the finest instruments, the most state of the art facility, the most powerful new semi truck, and the most knowledgeable instructors in the activity.......only to have 15 or 20 kids show up. Then, they "fold" within 2 years and an ambitious team of people are now stuck with a lifetime of horrible credit and a miserable corporate failure over their heads. I went at it from the opposite angle. It would have worked, had I not been 19 years old and had ambitions of my own, such as....well, life, money, and everything else that a 19 year old kid wants to do with their time.

So, did I create a failure of a program? Not in my opinion. I had my own equipment truck, I owned every single piece of equipment we used. We had over 30 horns, enough refurbished percussion equipment for 4 basses, 3 snares and 2 quads. We had a nice set of homemade (....omg, you mean, not CESARIO??!?!) uniforms, and enough colorguard flags for 12 guard. We had roughly 70 kids come through the program in 3 years. Why couldnt we retain them? Because we werent as big as the Blue Devils. Because our horns had these funky rotor-valve thingies on them. Because Wayne Downey wasnt our brass tech. Because, because, because, they all had their own reasons. But, I did something that no kid at 18 or 19 would have the guts to do. With no outside support whatsoever, I started my own drum and bugle corps which performed and survived for 3 years.

After reading your post about how YOU did everything, it appears to me what you had put together was something that only you saw resembling a drum corps. In order to attract members, there must be a full organization behind what you are doing so that everyone feels comfortable with your product. Not just a bunch of people who get together with a few old horns and what not. You even stated it yourself, it was only about $4000.00 worth of items that you had. What did you expect to get out of that?? Anyway, if you have solid financial backing and a prepared group of people to help run a program, you will have membership, guaranteed!! Oh and by the way, 19 and had all the answers too I see!!! Appreciate the dream but you may have needed a few more years of seasoning before stepping into the activity like you say you did. Don't be so harsh on what happened, but chalk it up to a very valuable learning experience that as you get older may understand why things happened the way they did!!