"B flat" instruments

[Puppet]

I never heard of a triple French horn. Learn something new everyday!

It's a beautiful piece of work ... Denis Wick #5 mouthpiece (silver plated)

I Feel like Hermann Baumann when I play this bad boy.

Puppet

Edited April 27, 2009 by Puppet

[CookieMonster]

Just when you think it took too long to tune up a regular double horn.

[G-horns]

Yes. But I have been playing a truly beautiful Engelbert Schmid Horn model with high Eb:

It's actually a F/Bb/Eb-alto Full Triple Horn. It's lighter than a normal double horn with stopping valve. I think it most closely fulfills the sound concept of the double horn player. You get a really full forte sound and it gives me more security up into the highest range. The full low F horn is good enough even for low horn players. 3 or 4.

I actually thought as much. Just seemed a little wacky because the Olds Mello we played BITD was produced as a "G" instrument like all the horns in our line.

Thanks for answering, just thought that the fingering and charts would be different for the "F" than the other horns in the line. I'm thinking about joining my Alumni corps and wondered what I would be getting into.

Puppet

BITD all the bugles in the line had to be in G by the rules.

Are Brassmen using B-flats???? If they are I'll bet Hy is spinning in his grave!

[Puppet]

BITD all the bugles in the line had to be in G by the rules.

Are Brassmen using B-flats???? If they are I'll bet Hy is spinning in his grave!

Like I did say, All the horns in ourline BITD were in "G" - even the Mellos.

Concert or Jazz Mellophonium were different but they have always been in the key of "F" and traditionally shaped very much like Horn in "F" only with pistons instead of valves - Stan Kenton has got some great charts using a straight bell model that was developed in the late fifties by Conn that sounded (circular tubing notwithstanding) like the one's we're marching with today.

I played Horn in "F" as a Concert Horn in the Music & Art High School Orchestra and All City Orchestra - played French Horn "G" bugle (with a piston and slide) when I started in Drum Corps - moved up to valve/rotary, then to Mello.

Yes, the Alumni Corps is playing Bb. That's why I was asking about (and was a little confused about) what was going on with the Mello Horns being in a different key than the other horns.

Yes. Hy is probably hurting. But I gotta think if he were with us, he would figure out a way to make even Bb horns have the kind of sound most guys can't get out of even the 80 horns on the field today.

I can't even imagine what St. Rita's would have sounded like with a contingent of 60 let alone 80. People in the stands would have had to wear chin straps on their baseball caps.

From a musician's standpoint, I truly believe he had a way of stacking the inner voices that made us sound much more full than our actual size. To be a French Horn or Mello player for Hy was a real treat.

Puppet

Edited April 27, 2009 by Puppet

[MoonHill]

...I'll add if the low brass is in bass clef, they are reading in C. Makes the band to corps transition real easy.

It's never going to stop bugging me that the bolded bit is at all a concern. Making it as easy as possible for a kid to go from band to corps seems to defeat the purpose of the "educational" part of the activity.

But that's just me. I also give a ton of crap to any trombone-playing music major I encounter that can't read tenor clef.

[MiniSopGuy]

.........I also give a ton of crap to any trombone-playing music major I encounter that can't read tenor clef.

I have read a bunch of music for trombone that was written in tenor cleff. Lots of old German Oompah stuff.

[crazymello]

It's a beautiful piece of work ... Denis Wick #5 mouthpiece (silver plated)

I Feel like Hermann Baumann when I play this bad boy.

Puppet

I so want that horn. 'tis a beauty.

[CookieMonster]

But that's just me. I also give a ton of crap to any trombone-playing music major I encounter that can't read tenor clef.

Same thing with Euphonium majors that can't read bass clef. It's not that hard, you trumpeters, I learned yours, now meet me halfway.

[Bruckner8]

They aren't. Identical to trumpet, or the old G bugles, just in F.

Old G Bugle Frenchies are identical to the G Bari (in length), but the sounded notes are identical to Sop in G, yes. (They play higher in the harmonic series, ala lead Sops playing above high C)

G Mellos are identical to Sops in length and range.

Standard G lines had only 3 octaves; 3 lengths of tubing (forget about picc sops):

G Sops, Flugels and Mellos (5 1/3 feet long)

G Baris, Euphs and Frenchies (10 2/3 feet long)

G Contras (21 1/3 feet long)

There was no "middle-keyed" instrument "in D," bridging the gaps. The Frenchies performed that role by the fact that, even though their horn was as long as a bari (and thus had the same overtone series), the bore was smaller, the mouthpiece was smaller, and the bell was bigger, thus giving them their characteristic sound (yummy), and allowing them to play higher in the harmonic series (like a natural French Horn). When the French Horn went out of favor, 2nd Mello parts were created, and lead bari parts went to high C more often.

Today's lines (multi-keyed) have these lengths of tubing:

Bb Trumpets and Flugels (4.5 feet long)

F Mellos (6 feet long)

Bb Baris and Euphs (9 feet long)

Bb Tubas (18 feet long)

We still have three octaves of Bb (Trp/Bar/Contra), but the Mello's length is inbetween the bari and trumpet, making a much more natural filler vs Bb Mellos or Bb Frenchies. No hornline out there today would have the nerve to try full-length (12 feet) F Frenchies!

[Puppet]

Old G Bugle Frenchies are identical to the G Bari (in length), but the sounded notes are identical to Sop in G, yes. (They play higher in the harmonic series, ala lead Sops playing above high C)

G Mellos are identical to Sops in length and range.

Standard G lines had only 3 octaves; 3 lengths of tubing (forget about picc sops):

G Sops, Flugels and Mellos (5 1/3 feet long)

G Baris, Euphs and Frenchies (10 2/3 feet long)

G Contras (21 1/3 feet long)

There was no "middle-keyed" instrument "in D," bridging the gaps. The Frenchies performed that role by the fact that, even though their horn was as long as a bari (and thus had the same overtone series), the bore was smaller, the mouthpiece was smaller, and the bell was bigger, thus giving them their characteristic sound (yummy), and allowing them to play higher in the harmonic series (like a natural French Horn). When the French Horn went out of favor, 2nd Mello parts were created, and lead bari parts went to high C more often.

Today's lines (multi-keyed) have these lengths of tubing:

Bb Trumpets and Flugels (4.5 feet long)

F Mellos (6 feet long)

Bb Baris and Euphs (9 feet long)

Bb Tubas (18 feet long)

We still have three octaves of Bb (Trp/Bar/Contra), but the Mello's length is inbetween the bari and trumpet, making a much more natural filler vs Bb Mellos or Bb Frenchies. No hornline out there today would have the nerve to try full-length (12 feet) F Frenchies!

About these ... ?

G Sops, Flugels and Mellos (5 1/3 feet long)

G Baris, Euphs and Frenchies (10 2/3 feet long)

Although the tubing may have been the same length for the sop/flugel/mello - didn't the bores and bell shapes and sizes make a difference in the tonality ... and wouldn't the same be true for French/Bari/Euph instruments? I specifically remember when we took delivery of our Euphoniums, they seemed to be twice the size of the baritone horns our guys were used to playing - heavier, too.

I could be wrong - I was 15 after all.

Puppet