"B flat" instruments

[G-horns]

Please, let's try to keep this forum safe for work, gentlemen.

Yeah. Just using that word (pedagogy) might get you arrested in some parts. If they don't know what it means, they figure it must be dirty and illegal.

[Puppet]

Pshaw. Pshaw and harumph. Harumph and balderdash.

And I want no one doing any "gogy" to my feet, athankyou.

Now, back to discussing how long our "horns" are.

please, it's never been how long it is, it's how long you can play it.

Puppet

[MoonHill]

please, it's never been how long it is, it's how long you can play it.

Puppet

I'm not going to have a conversation concerning my skills at playing other people's horns.

But I'm very good at playing my own horn. Which is very long.

It's a euphonism.

[Bruce Linderman]

Then there are no French Horns in use? Because concert Horn In F is traditional unless it's a double with an Eb rotary.

What would be the purpose of a Mello in "F" and who makes them - Amati used to when I was a kid. Who else?

Puppet

What would be the purpose of a Mello in "F"

Puppet,

It make sense the F Mello would provide a better Alto voice against the B flat trumpets. Oddly enough, the old G Frenchies provided an excellent alto voice even though they were also in G, like the sopranos. However, they were twice as long (I think). Although I loved the introduction of G Mellophones, something was lost when Frenches faded out....and that was the "Alto voice" between the sops and Frenches. Listen to 60's Hy Dreitzer or Joe Generro. Genero especially had incredibly beautiful counterpoint/countermelody with the Frenches against the sops. He was a genius with that.

[rayfallon]

BITD all the bugles in the line had to be in G by the rules.

Are Brassmen using B-flats???? If they are I'll bet Hy is spinning in his grave!

This is just my opinion, but I think that Hy would have dug the Bb and F configuration, or anything that would have given him better instruments to write for.

Hy was not entrenched. He was a musician's musician. (that's not a swiipe at G horn afficianados - just an observation-opinion about Hy - one of my heroes.)

[G-horns]

This is just my opinion, but I think that Hy would have dug the Bb and F configuration, or anything that would have given him better instruments to write for.

Hy was not entrenched. He was a musician's musician. (that's not a swiipe at G horn afficianados - just an observation-opinion about Hy - one of my heroes.)

Ray,

Wasn't it Hy who was quoted as saying he didn't care if they put six valves on the horns, just don't change the key? I agree that he would have loved having higher quality instruments at his disposal, but I think he would have lobbied for better G instruments in drum corps.

[rayfallon]

Ray,

I can't swear to any quotes, but it wouldn't surprise me.

It would be goofy for me to try to pretend I know how Hy felt about these bugles anyway.

I guess we all feel the way we feel.

[davidp]

Old G Bugle Frenchies are identical to the G Bari (in length), but the sounded notes are identical to Sop in G, yes. (They play higher in the harmonic series, ala lead Sops playing above high C)

G Mellos are identical to Sops in length and range.

Standard G lines had only 3 octaves; 3 lengths of tubing (forget about picc sops):

G Sops, Flugels and Mellos (5 1/3 feet long)

G Baris, Euphs and Frenchies (10 2/3 feet long)

G Contras (21 1/3 feet long)

There was no "middle-keyed" instrument "in D," bridging the gaps. The Frenchies performed that role by the fact that, even though their horn was as long as a bari (and thus had the same overtone series), the bore was smaller, the mouthpiece was smaller, and the bell was bigger, thus giving them their characteristic sound (yummy), and allowing them to play higher in the harmonic series (like a natural French Horn). When the French Horn went out of favor, 2nd Mello parts were created, and lead bari parts went to high C more often.

Today's lines (multi-keyed) have these lengths of tubing:

Bb Trumpets and Flugels (4.5 feet long)

F Mellos (6 feet long)

Bb Baris and Euphs (9 feet long)

Bb Tubas (18 feet long)

We still have three octaves of Bb (Trp/Bar/Contra), but the Mello's length is inbetween the bari and trumpet, making a much more natural filler vs Bb Mellos or Bb Frenchies. No hornline out there today would have the nerve to try full-length (12 feet) F Frenchies!

So, do the Bb Frenchies still have the same length of tubing as Bb Baritones? Also, aren't most F Frenchies basically mellophones which french horn leadpipes? I have both Bb and F marching french horns one by King (Bb), and the other is a DEG (F). The F horn looks a lot like a mello, but with less tubing, and I can play just as high (just about, anyway).

Not trying to "stir the puddin'," just asking. :)

[randomnoise]

So, do the Bb Frenchies still have the same length of tubing as Bb Baritones?

You are correct.

Also, aren't most F Frenchies basically mellophones which french horn leadpipes?

Not exactly. They are the same length, though. And the same fingerings (partials).

[brassomaniac]

...I'll add if the low brass is in bass clef, they are reading in C. Makes the band to corps transition real easy.

I've had corps guys who read bari parts in Treble Clef (those would be transposed, like the other Bb parts) and also transposed tuba parts (for Bb fingerings); and then, on the other hand, legit players who read concert pitch, in Bass Clef. So, I routinely print the parts both ways.

Edited June 2, 2009 by brassomaniac