Spartacus Effect?

[BillH]

I want to say incorporating the Drum Majors into the show story was something that was never done before. They really broke a new wall with that IMO.

You could argue Cadets 89 when the flag is tossed between the guard and DM or Madison with the cameras/flags/tossing of hats, but other than those two I can't really think of anyone who's used the Drum Majors so well incorporated into the show design and story.

BD 08 did it at the end of their Finals ending show, but only after Phantom had done it first.

What most people years from now probably won't realize is that for most of the season, "Spartacus" didn't have the phenomenal ending it did during the last week of the season.

Go watch Bridgemen's West side Story, all the way back in the early 80's!

[Jeff Ream]

What was the plot of Phantom's version of the Spartacus story, you mean?

I don't know, it was kind of confusing, but it went something like this.

Roman legions (brass and horn lines, led by drum majors) are brutally repressing the Spartan slaves (guard) they have captured. They make them set up flags and, horrors, the percussion pit. (Isn't forcing people to do this against the Geneva convention?? It should be.) Anyway, we see that there is some dissension in the ranks, as one of the Roman officers is less than jazzed with the brutality with which the slaves in the guard are treated.

The show begins and everyone seems to forget his troubles and repression, and plays his instrument, marches, and dances with great ensemble, just like in Porgy and Bess. A gladiator fight breaks out between Spartacus and one of the other slaves. Spartacus gains the upper hand and the drum major asks the crowd whether the vanquished should live or die. Heartless, bloodthirsty cretins that drum corps fans are, no surprise, they scream for an execution. The drum major so orders, and the defeated slave is slain by Spartacus.

Some self-righteous composer has a hissy fit and three seconds later, the corps has magically teleported into a different formation.

A female slave falls head-over-heels for Spartacus, and he for her. They emote great passion, but then Spartacus gets distracted by another cute guard member and turns his back for five seconds. Mrs. Spartacus' throat is brutally slashed by a legion officer, and she drops to the ground with a merciless, concussion-inducing thud on the Astroturf.

Spartacus scoops her up and wails that he is sick and tired of the anemic sound reproduction in the theater, and announces that he is going home to play DCI DVDs on his $20,000 home AV system. The other audience members, equally fed up with lame lies from ushers like "It's already as loud as we can make it", grab pitchforks and torches and set upon the theater staff. But the theater staff has superior weaponry: overpriced concessions, and the patron rebellion is brutally repressed, with some drum corps fans... and Spartacus... lying dead on the floor.

One of the legion officers, the namby-pamby one who at the beginning didn't like the way the cute girls in the guard were being treated, scoops Spartacus up and drops him in a coffin, and the coffin is slowly carried towards the front. But when the coffin gets there, they tip it to the side, and out falls the body of... John Locke. "But wait a minute...", says the narrator. "If that's John Locke, who is Spartacus?"

"I AM SPARTACUS!!" yells the panty-waist legion officer with a Fierce Salute. Other surviving guard and drum corps audience members argue with him: "I AM SPARTACUS!!" is heard ringing out throughout the theater. Some guy one row in front of me starts texting: "I AM SPAR..." and is beaten senseless by bloodthirsty, enraged cretins in the audience.

Mr. Civil Liberties takes advantage of all the confusion, grabs a spear, runs it through the Manager On Duty of the theater, and cranks the volume in the projection room at long last. The place goes up for grabs.

epic win

[chaos001]

What was the plot of Phantom's version of the Spartacus story, you mean?

I don't know, it was kind of confusing, but it went something like this.

Roman legions (brass and horn lines, led by drum majors) are brutally repressing the Spartan slaves (guard) they have captured. They make them set up flags and, horrors, the percussion pit. (Isn't forcing people to do this against the Geneva convention?? It should be.) Anyway, we see that there is some dissension in the ranks, as one of the Roman officers is less than jazzed with the brutality with which the slaves in the guard are treated.

The show begins and everyone seems to forget his troubles and repression, and plays his instrument, marches, and dances with great ensemble, just like in Porgy and Bess. A gladiator fight breaks out between Spartacus and one of the other slaves. Spartacus gains the upper hand and the drum major asks the crowd whether the vanquished should live or die. Heartless, bloodthirsty cretins that drum corps fans are, no surprise, they scream for an execution. The drum major so orders, and the defeated slave is slain by Spartacus.

Some self-righteous composer has a hissy fit and three seconds later, the corps has magically teleported into a different formation.

A female slave falls head-over-heels for Spartacus, and he for her. They emote great passion, but then Spartacus gets distracted by another cute guard member and turns his back for five seconds. Mrs. Spartacus' throat is brutally slashed by a legion officer, and she drops to the ground with a merciless, concussion-inducing thud on the Astroturf.

Spartacus scoops her up and wails that he is sick and tired of the anemic sound reproduction in the theater, and announces that he is going home to play DCI DVDs on his $20,000 home AV system. The other audience members, equally fed up with lame lies from ushers like "It's already as loud as we can make it", grab pitchforks and torches and set upon the theater staff. But the theater staff has superior weaponry: overpriced concessions, and the patron rebellion is brutally repressed, with some drum corps fans... and Spartacus... lying dead on the floor.

One of the legion officers, the namby-pamby one who at the beginning didn't like the way the cute girls in the guard were being treated, scoops Spartacus up and drops him in a coffin, and the coffin is slowly carried towards the front. But when the coffin gets there, they tip it to the side, and out falls the body of... John Locke. "But wait a minute...", says the narrator. "If that's John Locke, who is Spartacus?"

"I AM SPARTACUS!!" yells the panty-waist legion officer with a Fierce Salute. Other surviving guard and drum corps audience members argue with him: "I AM SPARTACUS!!" is heard ringing out throughout the theater. Some guy one row in front of me starts texting: "I AM SPAR..." and is beaten senseless by bloodthirsty, enraged cretins in the audience.

Mr. Civil Liberties takes advantage of all the confusion, grabs a spear, runs it through the Manager On Duty of the theater, and cranks the volume in the projection room at long last. The place goes up for grabs.

...and they all lived happily ever after. THE END.

[FTNK]

i'm hoping its effect is maximal. i can't tell you how sick i am of the cavaliers and blue devils rolling out the same overused wintergaurd concept year after year after year, and the cadets futile attempt to reclaim the "most innovative" status they lost when jim prime and zingali walked in the late 80's by creating ever more schizophrenic hack jobs. give me some great, melodic music and some kind of story that i can make out without having it explained to me at finals and i'm happy. give the melodic shows a fair chance to compete and i'm happier. fire all the ge judges and train new judges to score from the sheets again and i'm happiest.

Summary: I like it when I like it and I don't like it when I don't like it, and DCI should change to what I say. Which is a summary of almost every argument about show design on DCP.

[silvertrombone]

The Spartacus Effect sounds a lot like the "Machine" effect, where the Cavaliers chanted on the way into the stadium and had a thematic show that started as they entered, continued through warmup until the last note ended.

Hmmm.

Now, now...I've been pretty fair to Cavies, given who I marched with. Be nice. I'd buy your point except that PR had a pretty danged good theme/story show in 2006 as well. And I tend to think that they followed their own formula rather than Cavies...at least as far as since 2006 is concerned. That being said, I'll say once again that the Cavaliers have been the driving force in creativity and design pretty much the whole decade. PR had some good offerings but didn't ever really crack elite status again until they "got" what Cavies mastered from 2000 to 2006.

What you're talking about is more likely to be titled "Framework" effect, or some such...and it is what got everyone else thinking in the way they have gone the last 4 years or so. I missed out on "Frameworks," unfortunately, but I literally think it took the activity two years after Cavies three-peat earlier this decade to wrap their heads around what was being put on the field. Maybe a little bias in the judging community as to what "GE" actually means, also. But mostly just stellar design.

And don't tell me there hasn't been a little cheese coming out of Rosemont over the years, folks. Different brand, but marketed quite well.

I hope we get the Sportacus effect instead.

Note: may require guard girls to have pink hair.

Thanks...the thread needed that! Just wouldn't have been the same had it been a really hot blonde-gone-pink type...just...wow!

[MikeD]

I want to say incorporating the Drum Majors into the show story was something that was never done before.

1971 Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights did a "King and I" show, and their DM put on a bald wig and costume and did a bunch of Yul Bryner schtick throughout the show...

[silvertrombone]

Clarification: First and foremost, I realize that...especially the top 6 or so corps...have their very distinct history, style, reputations, etc. And I certainly wouldn't expect to see 8-15 corps playing "Spartacus-spinoff" shows this year. I mean, Mad-town is doing a super hero show? How cool is that?! Of course, the one thing nobody has said is...what VK is doing--THAT should be the pre-eminent topic of DCP this off-season. I would look for death and impalings out of Anaheim this season! Perhaps a grim reaper or three? The 'Scream' dude comes to mind.

Ahh...how about..."Scary Show"?? Yeah, cheese, but we're talking about VK now.

I would expect corps to come out and do THEIR thing this year, not PHANTOM'S thing...but put something on the field a la Triple Crown, Scheherazade, and so forth. No offense, but cut the crap, and put shows on the field that just whip the stands into froth before the last three corps even take the field...THAT sort of "Spartacus effect," if you will.

Believe me, I'm not worshipping Spartacus...I personally prefer Faust...just my preference...magical experience for me, personally...just like the first time all over again. But one cannot be considered objective and ignore the REACTION of the crowd...and THAT'S the effect I refer to.

Was part of that the fact that BD, Cavies and Cadets weren't 1-2-3 again? And that "maybe" Phantom had a chance?? Well, I said they had a realistic chance after they beat Cavies at Semis...even my comment at 1/4's broadcast of "there's your 2008 champion" was tongue-in-cheek because I knew that the corps hadn't taken care of business as far as Rosemont was concerned in over a decade...incredible streak, btw. But when they FINALLY slew the green beast at Semis, I knew they had a chance. After all, how many times has Phantom caught BD during finals week? Let's ask Concord about 2006!

I realize that 0.025 is 0.025...I pointed out that amounts to one judge ranking Phantom 0.05 higher...0.05, folks!! One guy says "14.9" instead of "15.0" in drums, or whatever, and BD is sitting on lucky number 13. My point wasn't about championships, winning or placement so much as...TRUE general effect...with the fans!

Can't tell me they didn't hear the reaction at Bloomington out in Allentown. I'm not listening...hmm...hmm...hmm.

Think about it.

- If Cascades put out the calibre of show they placed 12th with.

- Boston put out Red-calibre design.

- Gmen put out 5th place-calibre design.

- Xmen put out 6th place-calibre design.

- Cadets put out what their fans (all DC fans?) remember...love...yearn for them to put out! (sounds bad stated like that)

- Spirit, Colts, etc did the same.

Now, if ALL of those corps plus Blue Knights and several others heard the stands at Bloomington, they thought, "Wow...I'd sure like to elicit THAT kind of reaction!"

Kew word: REACTION!! Not scoring. Not placement. Reaction. Who wouldn't like to do that? Who wouldn't like to REACT like that for EVERY corps on the field?

I sure would. THAT'S what I remember from 90's DCI...and I miss it terribly.

Spartacus reminded me what DCI and drum corps are about. I hope some other people were reminded of it, too. Because although I am a biased phan and honk for "my" corps, I'll danged sure get up and toss babies for any corps that elicits that kind of reaction.

THAT'S what I meant by "Spartacus effect." Ciao.

[EDAVE]

Clarification: First and foremost, I realize that...especially the top 6 or so corps...have their very distinct history, style, reputations, etc. And I certainly wouldn't expect to see 8-15 corps playing "Spartacus-spinoff" shows this year. I mean, Mad-town is doing a super hero show? How cool is that?! Of course, the one thing nobody has said is...what VK is doing--THAT should be the pre-eminent topic of DCP this off-season. I would look for death and impalings out of Anaheim this season! Perhaps a grim reaper or three? The 'Scream' dude comes to mind.

Ahh...how about..."Scary Show"?? Yeah, cheese, but we're talking about VK now.

I would expect corps to come out and do THEIR thing this year, not PHANTOM'S thing...but put something on the field a la Triple Crown, Scheherazade, and so forth. No offense, but cut the crap, and put shows on the field that just whip the stands into froth before the last three corps even take the field...THAT sort of "Spartacus effect," if you will.

Believe me, I'm not worshipping Spartacus...I personally prefer Faust...just my preference...magical experience for me, personally...just like the first time all over again. But one cannot be considered objective and ignore the REACTION of the crowd...and THAT'S the effect I refer to.

Was part of that the fact that BD, Cavies and Cadets weren't 1-2-3 again? And that "maybe" Phantom had a chance?? Well, I said they had a realistic chance after they beat Cavies at Semis...even my comment at 1/4's broadcast of "there's your 2008 champion" was tongue-in-cheek because I knew that the corps hadn't taken care of business as far as Rosemont was concerned in over a decade...incredible streak, btw. But when they FINALLY slew the green beast at Semis, I knew they had a chance. After all, how many times has Phantom caught BD during finals week? Let's ask Concord about 2006!

I realize that 0.025 is 0.025...I pointed out that amounts to one judge ranking Phantom 0.05 higher...0.05, folks!! One guy says "14.9" instead of "15.0" in drums, or whatever, and BD is sitting on lucky number 13. My point wasn't about championships, winning or placement so much as...TRUE general effect...with the fans!

Can't tell me they didn't hear the reaction at Bloomington out in Allentown. I'm not listening...hmm...hmm...hmm.

Think about it.

- If Cascades put out the calibre of show they placed 12th with.

- Boston put out Red-calibre design.

- Gmen put out 5th place-calibre design.

- Xmen put out 6th place-calibre design.

- Cadets put out what their fans (all DC fans?) remember...love...yearn for them to put out! (sounds bad stated like that)

- Spirit, Colts, etc did the same.

Now, if ALL of those corps plus Blue Knights and several others heard the stands at Bloomington, they thought, "Wow...I'd sure like to elicit THAT kind of reaction!"

Kew word: REACTION!! Not scoring. Not placement. Reaction. Who wouldn't like to do that? Who wouldn't like to REACT like that for EVERY corps on the field?

I sure would. THAT'S what I remember from 90's DCI...and I miss it terribly.

Spartacus reminded me what DCI and drum corps are about. I hope some other people were reminded of it, too. Because although I am a biased phan and honk for "my" corps, I'll danged sure get up and toss babies for any corps that elicits that kind of reaction.

THAT'S what I meant by "Spartacus effect." Ciao.

[mad_scotty]

Summary: I like it when I like it and I don't like it when I don't like it, and DCI should change to what I say. Which is a summary of almost every argument about show design on DCP.

you're absolutely 100% wrong about my intent here, which is probably part bad explaining on my part and part reflexive autoresponse on yours. in the end i just think that more than one kind of show should be allowed to win. i hate seeing the judges discriminate against anything that doesn't match their entrenched paradigm. i don't mind corps doing the shows they do, i just want diversity of design in the top 3, not the same 3 shows getting trotted out year after year and dominating based primarily on design considerations. a crown, bluecoats or phantom show has to be essentially perfect to win, where other corps, while great executors as well, have a huge and normally insurmountable jump on every one else in scoring because their designs are dci/winterguard judging approved.

this has always been around though. can you honestly tell me the bridgemen didn't deserve a single title from 78-82, with those amazing hornlines and drumlines? or that the blue devils suddenly sucked in 90 when they did a rock show instead of jazz? or that madison was a 5th place corps in 92 when they pulled an 89 vanguard encore show or deserved 4th in 95 when they went 70's retro? i won't even mention 93 star, except to point out that i just mentioned them. judges slot corps according to their adherence to whatever the unwritten currently accepted design rules say and then adjust up or down slightly according to execution, and that sucks. it makes for homogenous, boring shows, and doesn't reward passion and performance from the marching members, which is what the people in the stands really pay to see.

i don't want everyone to do shows like phantom (which i like more for its reliance on music as the centerpiece, than its storyline). honestly, while i appreciate the amazing finals performance, which may be the best execution of a show i've ever seen, i don't really dig spartacus that much and i liked the devs show better, even though the first 2-3 minutes were a complete tick fest. ironic for me, i normally hate the modern devs/cavs style design and love phantoms style, but this one time i actually liked the chopped up visual-first style show better than the music-first one. i just want corps to be able to do whatever kind of show they want and get a fair shake from the green shirts.

[rut-roh]

can you honestly tell me the bridgemen didn't deserve a single title from 78-82, with those amazing hornlines and drumlines?

Yes. They were good, occasionally even great, but never the best in any given year, regardless of what type of show they did.

or that the blue devils suddenly sucked in 90 when they did a rock show instead of jazz?

How does a 4th place finish and scoring a 95.3 constitute "sucking"?? Even for the Blue Devils. Also keep in mind there was a new player in the mix that year, Star of Indiana. But if you really want to know why they finished where they did, it was clear to me watching that they just didn't have all guns firing on all cylinders that year from a performance standpoint. Percussion, although I loved their feature, was not what I had expected from an excellence standpoint. The visual program didn't always click the way I had expected. Again, this has nothing to do with the show they chose to do but with how well they achieved it. They were very good overall, just not supremely excellent across all captions the way they usually were. Man, there were some VERY good corps in their competitive neighborhood that year.

Also, for the record, BD went back to all-jazz in 1991. They dropped a placement to 5th and their score also dropped to a 93.8. Kinda blows the whole theory of jazz being the reason judges "liked" them out of the water.

or that madison was a 5th place corps in 92 when they pulled an 89 vanguard encore show

Please. Madison was nowhere near those top corps in 1992. I actually thought the Crossmen deserved to finish ahead of them that year.

or deserved 4th in 95 when they went 70's retro?

Again, another very fine corps that just didn't have all the sections achieving at the highest level. Excellent hornline, but the rest was just a bit above middle of the pack excellence.

i won't even mention 93 star, except to point out that i just mentioned them. judges slot corps according to their adherence to whatever the unwritten currently accepted design rules say and then adjust up or down slightly according to execution, and that sucks. it makes for homogenous, boring shows, and doesn't reward passion and performance from the marching members, which is what the people in the stands really pay to see.

Don't speak for "the people," please. You mean to tell me that the corps who beat all those corps you mentioned were devoid of passion?? Or quality of performance? You listed some great drum corps, for sure. Some of my favorites. But you also illustrate the point that it's not design that held them back. They were just clearly not as good as those who finished ahead of them from an excellence standpoint, period. I think FTNK was right: your basic philosophy is "I like it when I like it and I don't like it when I don't like it." Which is fine. Nothing to apologize for. Just realize that because you like it, because you think there is tremendous passion in their performance, because the audience may go crazy for it, doesn't mean there aren't flaws or issues of excellence and consistency in performance, or yes, even some design drawbacks here or there. Of all the corps you mentioned, only one had any real legitimate claim to winning a championship, the 1993 Star of Indiana. They lost by a tenth. The rest? Sorry...very good corps, one and all. Just not championship caliber in relation to their competition.

Edited May 15, 2009 by rut-roh