How do you want your guard?

[GMichael1230]

I don't see guards today doing 10 yard flag exchanges.

Perhaps because so many guards did this back in the day that it became *ho-hum* to see another guard do it??

I recall going to shows in the late 80's, early 90's and seeing guards do flag exchanges. After the 5th one, it got repetitive.

And, maybe it's because I have never done guard, but I just don't see the difficulty in it.

To do it right , and to do it consistently and in unison....? Yes, there is a degree of dificulty and skill there.

There is NO degree in difficulty in gyrating to a "pop tune" for 45 seconds, with no equipment, and no two people executing the same dance moves.

To see guards execute these "oh so ancient" moves today would add alot of excitement and suspense to the shows...it's a shame these desgniers forgot where they came from.

~G~

[Malibu]

I don't see guards today doing 10 yard flag exchanges.

Perhaps because so many guards did this back in the day that it became *ho-hum* to see another guard do it??

I recall going to shows in the late 80's, early 90's and seeing guards do flag exchanges. After the 5th one, it got repetitive.

And, maybe it's because I have never done guard, but I just don't see the difficulty in it.

Trust me, if you got out there waiting for a rifle to be hurled at you from the 35 yard line on the other side of the 50, you would think twice before saying, "This ain't hard!"

I judged an independent indoor guard this year that incorporated some vintage moves into their program. Because these moves were not "ho-hum" to the viewers (probably because they had never seen it done before) that part of the show got the most audience reaction!

Yes, it would be boring to see every guard and their mother come out and do the same exact moves.....but you have to remember, a lot of "that" is going on today.

[SBrancheau]

How do I want my guard??????/

Female, willing, able, smart, dedicated, and loving!

but that's just me.........

b**bs

Rob must be talking about me...

b**bs

[SBrancheau]

Some interesting dialogue here, which is what I wanted to generate. I tried not to make it an "old" versus "new" debate...(tastes great! less filling!)...

I do think guard HAS lost much of its "wow" factor. Deftguy, I remember the James Bond show and the absolutely incredible rifle toss over a pyramid of guard members from one corner of the gym floor to the other. If you've never done a rifle or flag exchange, lemme tell you, it ain't easy! If it's done WELL, it looks effortless. That is what continues to amaze me about 27. The rifle and flag exchanges looked so effortless, yet because I've done guard, I know how complex the execution of it was and is. Cavies made the tosses in the James Bond show look effortless.

The comments that were made about "ho hum, another equipment exchange" is EXACTLY how I feel about seeing ballet, ballet, ballet. I paid money to see the units execute equipment work...and I'm not getting my money's worth. If I wanted to see dance done MUCH BETTER, I'd go to my local concert hall and watch the ballet company. I know that I'll see dance done with proper technique and some measure of precision and unity.

I don't think we need to go back to spins and slams...but at times it DOES fit the music B)

Nonetheless, instructors shouldn't rely on dance that isn't done well in the first place, to mask the equipment work that lacks proper technique and cleanliness.

Now: Let's keep talking!

[SBrancheau]

Interesting observation:

As of this post no one has voted for Item #1...which is (in my completely objective opinion) what the state of guard is in today.

[Geoff]

Keep in mind, though, that there have been 214 views in this thread. And many of those will be multiple views by the same members.

24 total votes is not something I would call a scientific conclusion.

I'd be more interested to see the responses you would get if you posted your poll on ColorGuardPlanet, or even rec.arts.marching.colorguard.

[SBrancheau]

Poodle:

The reason I didn't post the poll on CGP is that there's not alot going on there. Much more activity here in DCP.

Sally

[LancerFi]

You know when I worked at Club Med I had the very lucky experience of seeing and working with the Montreal (or was it Canadian) Ballet with Sophie Bissonnette as their primary dancer. This was back in 86/87. We were learning lifts that they did in pairs....I could post a picture on here, but let's just say when I saw them dance I was WOWed like it was drum corps again.

Move forward about 10 years, seeing the Alvin Alley (sp) dancers, I know both of these that I mention are professional artists. WOW

I'd love to see a nice middle of the road (if I must) dance and good equipment work that wows me. I want WOW, not just wow. I don't want to see if for the sake of filling space. I know equipment work no longer needs to be together, it no longer matters. Maybe if it did we'd see more of it! And more death defying moves.

I don't want 1 flag running from the corner, 3 dancing in the middle, 6 sabers catching on the move or on the lunge to catch them, the rest of the guard changing equipment. It's all so disjointed....but I am trying harder, I have this year to be wowed, oh please someone do at least 1 exchange as good as any done in the Bond show, just 1....little one even?? Please, Please, Please? And done well!

Also, if you truly believe that all 50 yard line exchanges were the same corps after corps, I must ask, were you there or have you watched the video? Same is now.

[deftguy]

Poodle,

You are missing the point of all this, and your lack of experience within the colorguard realm is betraying you. This discussion was never made to be scientfic, its opinion. You can't see the difficulty of flag and rifle exchanges because you have never done one. You can't logically discuss something that you have no experience or knowledge of. It is easy to not see the difficulty of doing this because we work so hard to make it look easy. You also don't have any understanding of the long hours of practice it take to get these done right(it takes alot more time than getting a dance step correct this I know FIRST hand)

I do not think it would be a stretch to assume that most pagentry member(dang I cannot make myself call it colorguard)would be more accepting of what they do today. It is what they know. But if you began teaching them more equipment work, clean it well, I can guarantee they will take to it. There is always room for dance within the confines of WGI, but on the field it is visually less effective than double flags, streamers, butterflywing flags, or rifles grouped together doing double time or a toss.

The point I am trying to make is that DCI has less variety and way too much of the same if you look at it carefully. No one colorguard when I marched looked anything alike upon careful observation. Even the guards and corps that were in the Ilinois state didn't do things alike even though we competed in the same circuit. Phantom looked and did things differently than the Cavaliers. The Guardsman also had a different technique than the Cavies. 27th was different than the Bridgeman who were in a class all by themselves. The Cadets had a different style than the Troopers and the beat goes on. Today there is a very prominent thread that extends through every guard in existance. Ballet and more ballet. All done with varing degrees of proficiency and technique. Because of this just like Nancy has outlined previously, I find myself looking more at the corps, and listening to the music than watching the guard. By going a little more hip hop, perhaps the 2002 Cavies guard can usher in more variety between guards. At least I hope they can help get guard out of the ballet quagmire, and on to something else. What guards are doing today is what high school drill teams did in my marching career. That probably can explain why WGI is pretty popular today. If you are into dance, pagentry of today is your gig. If you are into drill team, the pagentry of today is your gig. If you like colorguard, the pagentry of today is NOT your gig.

Edited May 1, 2003 by deftguy

[Geoff]

Poodle,

You are missing the point of all this, and your lack of experience within the colorguard realm is betraying you. This discussion was never made to be scientfic, its opinion. You can't see the difficulty of flag and rifle exchanges because you have never done one. You can't logically discuss something that you have no experience or knowledge of.

Tell you what. I apologize for trying to join the conversation.

How about the three of you have this little thread all to yourselves.

However, do not assume that just because someone has not actually spun a rifle means they can not discuss it. By that very reason alone, Sally shouldn't be discussing drum corps at all.