An email I got from YEA

[DCIHasBeen]

In short yes. An email such as that is unthinkable coming from a well managed corporate environment.

Your right. And drum corps, any drum corps, is about as far as you will get from a well-managed corporate environment.

Drum corps is management by the seat of your pants, usually driven by the will/ego/strength of character of a somewhat obsessed individual with as much peripheral help as they can find, and usually running on too much adrenaline.

#### happens. Stuff falls through the cracks ... I don't care how well the organization is managed on the whole. There just ain't enough coverage to get all things right all the time, and this is one of those occasions.

Nothing to see here. Move on ...

Edited June 15, 2009 by DCIHasBeen

[Liam]

Your right. And drum corps, any drum corps, is about as far as you will get from a well-managed corporate environment.

Agreed. So is there no value, then, in giving some advice occassionally to help them get closer?

Drum corps is management by the seat of your pants, usually driven by the will/ego/strength of character of a somewhat obsessed individual with as much peripheral help as they can find, and usually running on too much adrenaline.

I've been saying this for years and I try to offer constructive advice as some of that "peripheral help" whenever appropriate.

#### happens. Stuff falls through the cracks ... I don't care how well the organization is managed on the whole. There just ain't enough coverage to get all things right all the time, and this is one of those occasions.

Agreed. Mistakes happen. But we should all accept the constructive criticism that follows and learn from our mistakes to become better managers/people/etc.

Nothing to see here. Move on ...

Disagree. I'll admit that any thread like this has some hyperbole and unnecessary bashing of favorite targets. But at it's heart, I do think there's some good advice here that everyone can learn from:

1) You should never mention an expected or preferred age for potential candidates of a job opening. This has age discrimination written all over it.

2) It's generally bad form (and potentially costly) to talk about or allude to a former employee's reasons for leaving (good, bad, or indifferent) outside the walls of the HR department.

The rest of it I will pass on, but those two points, as least, are worth discussing as this forum brings together some folks with the expertise to advise on these issues with the "seat of the pants" decision makers whose expertise may lie elsewhere, that's all.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Liam

[kusankusho]

. . .excepting the ones that are / were approved for use during the election, which hers is.

So is that why my Che Guevara icon went bye-bye while I was suspended?

That wasn't intended as a political statement - it was just a silly thing following on from a thread where I was called the Che of anti-synth'ers, or something like that.

Not a big deal, certainly not worth firing off another email to be ignored, but I did wonder....

Edited June 15, 2009 by kusankusho

[MoonHill]

Why didn't YEA just post for the job without talking about the former employee???

That's the question, alright. Apparently it's because Hopkins thinks all actions should have consequences... except those of the YEA! organization, for some reason.

[MoonHill]

What's this "personal opinion" that's bending you out of shape?

I'm not bent out of shape by anything in particular. I've got no personal dog in this hunt, and I'm a big Cadets fan in general.

But I do run a business in a reputation-based industry, and it's incredibly poor form to comment on a former employee in a job posting. It's even worse form to essentially say "Yeah, I said what I said, and she should suck it up!" when that gets pointed out. Hell, the tiny little corps just barely getting started in the backwoods of whereever that can just maybe put together enough money to stay around for a few years understand this concept.

The note compliments her in several ways. The only comment specific to her that can be construed as derogatory refers to her leaving without notice (and even that's a stretch). Is that what's got you twisted? That YEA said it has an urgent need for help because the previous person (whom they called good and getting better) left them without the courtesy of a week or two to start filling the opening? You're tough to please.

HH

Yeah, I guess, "there's no accounting for the logic of a 25-year-old" and all the rest of the stuff that others have pointed out could constitute unadulterated praise. I guess.

Regardless, it's the act, not the content, that is causing the controversy. A controversy which you're not helping much, I have to say.

[MoonHill]

2. The email in question was seen as completely inappropriate by non-Cadets fans and conversely as acceptable by Cadets fans. There will never be a retraction by George about said email. He will not apologize for it, nor has he ever apologized for any wrongdoing that he or his organization have been accused. This is the way that YEA is managed. Cadets fans understand it, non-Cadets fans don't.

I know MikeD already nailed this one, but I can't help but say: Cadets2000 doesn't count as a Cadets fan anymore? 'cause he was pretty clear in his defense of the YEA! organization, but not the email. I must have missed a memo.

[dbc03]

That's the question, alright. Apparently it's because Hopkins thinks all actions should have consequences... except those of the YEA! organization, for some reason.

I think he is perfectly aware that the actions of the YEA organization have consequences, I just don't think he is particularly concerned about the consequence of making DCP mad at him. That ship has sailed.

[Jeff Ream]

however that email went out to a lot more than DCP. I know a few band directors that saw it that now question their involvement with USSBA.

[Liam]

Also, as I mentioned earlier, the consequences may be felt more directly by the job solicitor. If you are looking for the best and brightest that fits your organizations budget, you don't want to turn off any potential employees by how you treat or talk about ex-employees, or about how you solicit for the job in general. That's where my advice is aimed here. I'm just talking generally, here. I understand that this particular position has been filled (I think I read that ...) and I wish all the best of luck going forward. All I was saying is that there could be direct consequences of reducing your potential employee pool that you should be aware of, not just the consequences of a bunch of dorks on DCP not liking you.

[MoonHill]

I think he is perfectly aware that the actions of the YEA organization have consequences, I just don't think he is particularly concerned about the consequence of making DCP mad at him. That ship has sailed.

Then why question the motivations of the OP in posting it, the way he did?

I just find the "We did nothing wrong, but if you think it's wrong, then how come you're just as wrong as we are? Huh? Huh?" attitude he displayed to be somewhat hilarious.