kinigit Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Knowing the Pioneer staff very well I can say that they would be thrilled to try and put something less Irish on the field. However the corps director Roman will not approve anything else. Same reason they only march girls in the guard. I agree with other posters that this organization is about the education of its members, as any good organization should be. What I hate to see here is that the director is essentially setting the corps up for failure. I believe that you can be educational, AND progressive at the same time. Band directors don't program concerts to include only music of one particular style, and they certainly don't do it every semester. Education can't just be about technique and musicianship; it MUST include education on various styles and composers. Some might say that Pioneer's shtick is playing Irish music. Is it also their shtick to finish last every year? How can finishing last every year be good for the members of this corps? It's one thing to come in last after an innovative, demanding show, but to come in last because the director simply doesn't approve of anything that isn't Irish? That's ridiculous. The definition of insanity is to consistently repeat an illogical action while attaining the same outcome. THIS, is insane. (sorry if I have offended any PIO alum; I only want what is BEST for the kids; this is, after all, my opinion.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps-mudgeon Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 The definition of insanity is to consistently repeat an illogical action while attaining the same outcome. THIS, is insane. (sorry if I have offended any PIO alum; I only want what is BEST for the kids; this is, after all, my opinion.) The actual alleged Einstein quote goes more like "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." It's not likely that Roman expects a different outcome--he knows what he's doing. If kids want a different experience than Pioneer offers, there are other corps they can go to where they can have what you think is best for them. And no, not a PIO alumn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinigit Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 The actual alleged Einstein quote goes more like "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." It's not likely that Roman expects a different outcome--he knows what he's doing.If kids want a different experience than Pioneer offers, there are other corps they can go to where they can have what you think is best for them. And no, not a PIO alumn. Yeah, I didn't nail the quote, but that's what I think insanity is. Perhaps there is no other place these kids can go. Perhaps they can't afford it, and perhaps they don't have the skills they need yet. Many of them do move on when they can. Why would a corps director not want his members to stay and build the corps so that he can challenge the members even more? Perhaps I'm missing something, and just won't understand. I want you to know that I am not against PIO. I am so happy that they provide the opportunity for the kids to perform every summer! I just wish that the members could get a more well-rounded experience with other styles of music. From what I've heard so far, they are at least doing more challenging drill. I don't think this mentality is good for drum corps, marching band, or music education in general. The corps name is Pioneer. Why not be pioneers in the drum corps world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1PhantomPhan Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I find it funny that people keep talking about Seattle, Surf and Pio, but not one person has yet to mention that Mandarins are in that grouping too. Don't forget that other corps from out west. They have just as much of a chance to make a run for it like any of the other three mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuelkarafotis Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I think that it is pretty unfair to judge Surf and Seattle when they've yet to have a performance or a score this season. A lot of people are already pegging Seattle as the last place corps, and I know from marching with a corps which that has happened to, it is not a very encouraging experience. I'm sure that even through the isolation of drum corps, there are members of that corps who read this board, and I just hope they take it as a personal challenge to do even better, rather than let it discourage them. On another note, I do hope that Pio pulls from last, and from everything I've seen I think they can do it, if the judging community will allow them. For whatever good reasons, this is a completely different corps this year, and despite the number, I think it will be a good season no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps-mudgeon Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I find it funny that people keep talking about Seattle, Surf and Pio, but not one person has yet to mention that Mandarins are in that grouping too. Don't forget that other corps from out west. They have just as much of a chance to make a run for it like any of the other three mentioned. It's probably a good thing for the Mandarins that no one is talking about them pulling out of last place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmroth1 Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 The actual alleged Einstein quote goes more like "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." It's not likely that Roman expects a different outcome--he knows what he's doing.If kids want a different experience than Pioneer offers, there are other corps they can go to where they can have what you think is best for them. And no, not a PIO alumn. Oh, you hit it right on the head. Roman does know exactly what he's doing and how it effects the corps for good or bad. So that's not insanity. The only reason it becomes an issue is because the staff, members and fans tend to have have a different philosophy than Roman. Roman is a great person! He just has a different background and focus that has propelled him to make the decisions he makes today and it is HIS corps. Like you said, if a kid wants a different experience they will move on and they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) Perhaps I'm missing something, and just won't understand. I want you to know that I am not against PIO. I am so happy that they provide the opportunity for the kids to perform every summer! I just wish that the members could get a more well-rounded experience with other styles of music. Well.....as far as a "Well rounded experience" from what I have read over the years....Pioneer provides one of the most well rounded experiences out there. The members know this upfront. See.....Pioneer has a "True" focus on the life experiences you can gain from the drum corps experience. It is about a lot more than choice of music, judges, scores, placements......... I just wish that the members could get a more well-rounded experience with other styles of music. That's fine......but it obviously doesn't matter to the members who participate.... I don't think this mentality is good for drum corps, marching band, or music education in general. Don't agree.....members are being "Taught" how to play and how to get better. That is education for sure....... I never marched with Pioneer and never knew anyone who marched with Pioneer. I like the corps (And never miss their performance when I am at a show) because they are true to their roots.......and represent the idea that you don't have to be an experienced drum corps/band person to participate in a "Word Class" corps. Here's hoping Pioneer has an awesome 2009 season........ Edited June 28, 2009 by Triple Forte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmroth1 Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) Well.....as far as a "Well rounded experience" from what I have read over the years....Pioneer provides one of the most well rounded experiences out there. The members know this upfront. See.....Pioneer has a "True" focus on the life experiences you can gain from the drum corps experience. It is about a lot more than choice of music, judges, scores, placements.........That's fine......but it obviously doesn't matter to the members who participate.... Don't agree.....members are being "Taught" how to play and how to get better. That is education for sure....... I never marched with Pioneer and never knew anyone who marched with Pioneer. I like the corps (And never miss their performance when I am at a show) because they are true to their roots.......and represent the idea that you don't have to be an experienced drum corps/band person to participate in a "Word Class" corps. Here's hoping Pioneer has an awesome 2009 season........ As far as the Pioneer experience goes.... When it comes to the day to day "experience" Pioneer provides as a World Class Drum Corps it isn't much different than other World Class corps. They practice just as long and hard as other corps do. Their staff works just as hard. They offer about the same number of free days as other World Class Corps. They have their own traditions like other corps. They have little corps mantras like other corps do. (They do require their kids to attend Church on Sundays which I think is not required at other corps and also not something that should be required). What they do different than most other world class corps is to provide this experience to more inexperienced members. Some of them wouldn't have that opportunity in any other world class corps. They push to compete, they push to improve. Those members who do not like playing the Irish music year after year will move on. Those members who wish to become more competitive will move on. The Irish music is Romans thing and thats it. It's a great experience but to use it as an example of being something more well rounded or more "true" than other World Class Corps it is not. Drum Corps could use a whole lot more corps like Pioneer. Edited June 28, 2009 by bmroth1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 The Irish music is Romans thing and thats it. It's a great experience but to use it as an example of being something more well rounded or more "true" than other World Class Corps it is not. I agree. The Pioneer experience is what makes them a well rounded organization...not their musical choices Drum Corps could use a whole lot more corps like Pioneer. Absolutely...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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