I'm a little surprised to day

[Rochester New York]

Colts. Meh, something is missing. I don't know what. Colts, to me, have always been, just so, vanilla.

Almost always. Colts 1999 still stands for me as the best 12th place show I've ever seen at Finals (and I've seen many). I've never understood why they never tried this style again, and instead went for limpid, "theme-based" shows.

[TerriTroop]

I read a few more posts that you had responded to earlier and see now and understand a little better what you were referencing. However, I really still haven't found any comments that I find to be disrespectful or in bad taste in any way shape or form. One thing I have noticed though which I find amazing (not just in this thread but in others as well) is that it seems that now that the Troopers are knocking on the gates of glory anytime a comment is made that the poster thinks might draw negative attention from the Trooper nation they always seem to qualify their comments with an apology first or something similar to the effect of: Nothing against the Troopers or I have always loved the Troopers or not to take anything away from the Troopers, or even though I think the troopers are great or I STILL love the Troopers.......... I'm guilty, I do it too! I just kind of noticed it and am really starting to find it to be quite funny. However, the bottom line remains if you think that corps A:Colts, Academy, Madison, Spirit, Pioneer deserve to beat the Troopers than obviously there are reasons you think their show is better and hence why they should score better so your still going to get the dreaded "nothing against the troopers I've loved them since the caveman but....

Maybe it's because our DM carries a sharp weapon.

In truth, I think this will start to go away in the next few years. For now it's a nod of respect to the corps' heritage and legacy, and maybe a little bit of "ok, we'll give them a bit of a pass because of who they are" sentiment. But if things start to go the way I hope they do, the modern version of America's Corps will probably no longer be the beneficiaries of the whole "awww, it's the Troopers, be nice to them" sentiment. It'll wear off, and that's ok. This is big boy drum corps, it won't hurt to have to put up with sharper criticism.

[bmroth1]

Almost always. Colts 1999 still stands for me as the best 12th place show I've ever seen at Finals (and I've seen many). I've never understood why they never tried this style again, and instead went for limpid, "theme-based" shows.

Seems to be todays thing. Pretty much every corps has went to theme based drum corps or shall I say tell a story with their show...

[bmroth1]

Maybe it's because our DM carries a sharp weapon.

In truth, I think this will start to go away in the next few years. For now it's a nod of respect to the corps' heritage and legacy, and maybe a little bit of "ok, we'll give them a bit of a pass because of who they are" sentiment. But if things start to go the way I hope they do, the modern version of America's Corps will probably no longer be the beneficiaries of the whole "awww, it's the Troopers, be nice to them" sentiment. It'll wear off, and that's ok. This is big boy drum corps, it won't hurt to have to put up with sharper criticism.

Yeah Terri, I just kind of noticed it in the threads and even caught myself doing it... Your right, I think it is a well deserved nod of respect I found it funny though that I found myself doing it sub-consciously....weird..!..

[thatguywiththehat]

I feel that the Colts execute their show better but have a suspicion that they will be running out of show design changes as well as other characterizations to really boost that GE up. The Nautical themed colorguard uniforms and flags with the drill put you in a connection to the show, but it isn't that big. I saw them from up top at Atlanta and said "Hey, phathoms, water stuff, fish flags... neat" But that was it. I can't remember a single musical melody in their show. It was kinda boring as well. I saw them in Denver a few weeks earlier and they have improved a lot, but who hasn't?

I feel that the few times i've seen the Troopers have been far more superior on a design element, especially the new ending with the "Tony and Maria" cowboy and indian love story ending. It was a great connection to me, someone watching in the stands... or online, with the one hand one heart reprise into a strong ending with the two appearing again after getting pushed apart. It has a beginning, middle, and end as an earlier comment stated and it was one of the shows that i can remember walking out of the show.

When it gets to the higher rankings it becomes more about show design as opposed to execution. Everyone at that level can perform at a very high level, but the show design is that vehicle to really highlight what the corps does best. A solid design team is what separates good show design from a great show design, which is something that the Troopers have over the Colts. (Dean Westman, Gordon Henderson, Dan Wiles, Mitch Rogers, Ralph Hardimon... to name a few)

.. just my two cents.

Edited July 27, 2009 by thatguywiththehat

[bmroth1]

I feel that the Colts execute their show better but have a suspicion that they will be running out of show design changes as well as other characterizations to really boost that GE up. The Nautical themed colorguard uniforms and flags with the drill put you in a connection to the show, but it isn't that big. I saw them from up top at Atlanta and said "Hey, phathoms, water stuff, fish flags... neat" But that was it. I can't remember a single musical melody in their show. It was kinda boring as well. I saw them in Denver a few weeks earlier and they have improved a lot, but who hasn't?

I feel that the few times i've seen the Troopers have been far more superior on a design element, especially the new ending with the "Tony and Maria" cowboy and indian love story ending. It was a great connection to me, someone watching in the stands... or online, with the one hand one heart reprise into a strong ending with the two appearing again after getting pushed apart. It has a beginning, middle, and end as an earlier comment stated and it was one of the shows that i can remember walking out of the show.

When it gets to the higher rankings it becomes more about show design as opposed to execution. Everyone at that level can perform at a very high level, but the show design is that vehicle to really highlight what the corps does best. A solid design team is what separates good show design from a great show design, which is something that the Troopers have over the Colts. (Dean Westman, Gordon Henderson, Dan Wiles, Mitch Rogers, Ralph Hardimon... to name a few)

.. just my two cents.

Respectfully disagree....but I did like the new ending the Troop put in.

[shawn craig]

I saw the Colts only once, second show out in Anapolis. Haven't seen Troopers so I can't comment on the show designs or execution.

I'm a big fan of both corps and have connections to each so for it will be exciting which ever coprs makes finals!

If Troopers are the coprs to make 12th it will be the first time since 1975 that the four coprs still competing in DCI World Class that made finals in 72 will all be in finals again.

1972 Championships (from corps reps)

1 Kingsmen 88.100

2 Blue Stars 87.650

3 Santa Clara Vanguard 87.350

4 27th Lancers 86.000

5 Argonne Rebels 82.900

6 Troopers 81.950

7 Des Plaines Vanguard 81.250

8 Kilties 81.200

9 Cavaliers 79.450

10 Muchachos 78.450

11 Bridgemen 75.400

12 Bleu Raeders 73.950

Edited July 27, 2009 by shawn craig

[rayfallon]

Not sure what you were exactly looking for then. Your opening post / request was pretty specific in requesting fans other then Troopers fans to make their voices loud and clear or something to that effect. While I too agreed with and posted that the Blue Stars and Troopers are to be highly commended for remaining active and improving their lot it really didn't have anything to do with your opening post. Making a request as you did is going to bring people who comment one way or another about the corps they feel deserves to be in finals and with those comments they are going to lend comments of support to back that up. I have felt this has been a very good thread in the fact that no one is flaming or bashing any other corps at least from what I have seen.

I see that now. I honestly thought that people would be discussing their corps' possibilities as to moving up with the time left, rather than bashing the corps who were currently ahead of them. At my age I guess that's unbelieveably naive, and I won't set flame bait like that again. Ended up feeling a little embarrassed.

I just read your post a little more closely. I guess it feels to me that if to make your corps' point you need to question voicing and "hackneyed" charts (assuming that you even have the expertise to arrive at those opinions) you don't get competition. Someone else doesn't need to be bad for your corps to be good. Your corps just needs to get better, which there's clearly enough time to do.

I feel like I just opened it up to some ?haters?

For instance, if I like HNC, do I need to criticize BD's charts, staff, show to make my point? Doesn't my group have enough gas for me to make my case? That's what I mean, and why I feel naive for my post.

[bmroth1]

I see that now. I honestly thought that people would be discussing their corps' possibilities as to moving up with the time left, rather than bashing the corps who were currently ahead of them. At my age I guess that's unbelievably naive, and I won't set flame bait like that again. Ended up feeling a little embarrassed.

I just read your post a little more closely. I guess it feels to me that if to make your corps' point you need to question voicing and "hackneyed" charts (assuming that you even have the expertise to arrive at those opinions) you don't get competition. Someone else doesn't need to be bad for your corps to be good. Your corps just needs to get better, which there's clearly enough time to do.

I feel like I just opened it up to some ?haters?

For instance, if I like HNC, do I need to criticize BD's charts, staff, show to make my point? Doesn't my group have enough gas for me to make my case? That's what I mean, and why I feel naive for my post.

Couple notes...First off that wasn't my post. I never questioned voicing and "hackneyed" charts. However, I don't call comparing shows flaming nor did I see anyone putting down another corps. I just notice people stating that they felt a particular corps show was better for certain technical reasons than another's. I've seen that on all sides. I don't call that flaming. Perhaps "hackneyed" was a tough word by whomever used it not sure.

I understand your point about trying to make your corps case without criticizing another group and I don't call that naive if that's what you truly believe it is. However, your always going to be comparing shows on all the different tier levels i.e.. Cadets perhaps having a more difficult visual program then Crown but perhaps Crown being cleaner sounding or whatever the comparison is. In a competitive activity like this you will see those comparisons all the time and unless someone is just being mean I don't think there is anything wrong with stating the opinion that one is better than the other. I just didn't want you to feel bad about your thread because to me it's a good one.

[luvah]

Couple notes...First off that wasn't my post. I never questioned voicing and "hackneyed" charts. However, I don't call comparing shows flaming nor did I see anyone putting down another corps. I just notice people stating that they felt a particular corps show was better for certain technical reasons than another's. I've seen that on all sides. I don't call that flaming. Perhaps "hackneyed" was a tough word by whomever used it not sure.

I understand your point about trying to make your corps case without criticizing another group and I don't call that naive if that's what you truly believe it is. However, your always going to be comparing shows on all the different tier levels i.e.. Cadets perhaps having a more difficult visual program then Crown but perhaps Crown being cleaner sounding or whatever the comparison is. In a competitive activity like this you will see those comparisons all the time and unless someone is just being mean I don't think there is anything wrong with stating the opinion that one is better than the other. I just didn't want you to feel bad about your thread because to me it's a good one.

It was my post. I used the word "Hackneyed" to describe the Troopers horn arrangements. I was actually quoting someone from Soundmachine chat page--and I agree w/ the idea that the Troopers horn parts are not as sophisticated and professionally arranged as the Colts-- to me they just don't "sound" as good. But really the post was about my frustration w/ the judges inability or unwillingness to recognize the Colts pleasing horn arrangements.

If what you have to say offends no one, it probably is not that interesting. I understand some people do love to be offended, and to them I'd just like to say "your welcome!"