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Might the answer be more economical rather than entertainment driven? What did it cost to take the whole family to a show in 1968 vs 2008 (and clearly considering adjustments for inflation)? What did it cost to hold a show then compared to now? Maybe the entertainment value has decreased but has it been the biggest factor or does the cost factor drive the fewer number of shows and the lower resulting attendence?

good question to explore.... well, in 1978, we had double digit interest rates ( compared to 5% today ), national unemployment rate ( currently at approx. 9.5% ) was higher, gas prices were much higher, taxes were higher, national consumer confidence index was lower, etc. The phrase used to describe this period of time economically was '"a national malaise " by the President at the time...... so, in a nutshell, potential fans in 1978 were more strapped for cash to attend shows........ as for 1968, the country was in turmoil culturally with a sea change taking place and the country was embroiled in war protests, city racial strife, and a war that was extremely divisive. So, the simple answer is that there were lots of reasons in both 1968 and in 1978 to expect few fans to be attending Drum Corps shows compared with 2008. But yet, more fans came out in both 1968 and 1978, than in 2008.

Edited by BRASSO
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Might the answer be more economical rather than entertainment driven? What did it cost to take the whole family to a show in 1968 vs 2008 (and clearly considering adjustments for inflation)? What did it cost to hold a show then compared to now? Maybe the entertainment value has decreased but has it been the biggest factor or does the cost factor drive the fewer number of shows and the lower resulting attendence?

Not to mention the higher multitude of entertainment options and more competition for publicity...

I'm not saying that new drum corps is better than old drum corps, or the inverse of that, either. I think all eras of any art or sport have their merits. I'm just contesting the premise the new drum corps aren't entertaining, and that the corps have driven off scads of people with their programming choices.

I also question the "good old days" arguments. I believe that in 30 years, there are going to be people my age making the same claims as some of you in this thread, about how much better things were "back in my day," because frankly, that just how things seem to work. People often look fondly at only the good things in their youth, and I'm sure that in a few decades, there will be people that discount the corps of being unable to match the intensity of 99 SCV, the crowd-appeal of 08 Regiment, or touch the visual creativity of 02 Cavies... Things change, and for many, change from what got them passionate about the activity is bad as opposed to different.

Whatevs- this is a tired argument, and I've said my piece. The "dinosaurs" will continue hate on the new stuff, the "young punks" will continue to champion the current, and a quiet majority of us in the middle will just continue to enjoy, appreciate, and support this wonderful activity as it changes and evolves.

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If the talent is better, the instruction is better, and the shows are more complex and better, why is it that more people from May - Sept. across America went to a Drum Corps show in 1968 and 1978 than they did in 2008 ? No one would be foolish enough to try and make a futile claim that more fans across America went to a Drum Corps show in 2008 than in either 1968 or 1978. So we can agree that the product MIGHT be better, but whether it is more entertaining is a specious argument at best. If we judge the shows appeal by the number of fannies in a seat, then we have the answer to this question of entertainment value irrespective of what some might consider " better ".

Hmm, there's a lot more choice for entertainment available these days, at the touch of a button. That might be a consideration.

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good question to explore.... well, in 1978, we had double digit interest rates, national unemployment rate ( currently at approx. 9.5% ) was higher, gas prices were much higher, taxes were higher, national consumer confidence index was lower, etc The phrase used to describe this period of time economically was '"a national malaise " by the President at the time...... so, in a nutshell, potential fans in 1978 were more strapped for cash to attend shows........ as for 1968, the country was in turmoil culturally with a sea change takling place and the country was embroiled in protests, and racial strife, and a war that was extremely divisive. So, the simple answer is that there were lots of reasons in both 1968 and in 1978 to expect few fans to be attending Drum Corps shows compared with 2008. But yet, more fans came out in both 1968 and 1978, than in 2008.

But one difference you didn't mention was that there were more local shows in 1978 than 2008. And the cost to attend those local shows was a couple of bucks. IIRC about the same price as going to the movies. And couple of those shows weren't much farther than my dads commute to work. But that unemployment and gas prices helped to kill the local shows that I used to attend and compete at in 1978.

Edited by JimF-3rdBari
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For anyone who wants to play the "fewer drum corps now" card, I'll continue to play the "total number of competitive marching musicians" card... jus' sayin'. Competitive high school marching bands have taken the place of the smaller community drum corps, for better or for worse, but there are more kids now learning the lessons that this and similar activities can offer. To me, that's the important part.

I guess my point is that a fewer quantity of drum corps isn't necessarily indicative of the death, or even the decline of the activity. Just a shift to a different model.

Where?

This may be true, in some places and for a small percentage of students. But for the vast majority of high school students, there is no option if they aren't fortunate enough to go to a school with the resources to field this type of program, or that considers a nationally competitive marching band to be a priority. Many schools don't have a band program of any type, and many that do feel that their efforts are better directed to other ends than marching competition, a sentiment that I find hard to disagree with.

In my area, the "competitive model" for the average high school band is one or maybe two competitions a year, against the other local high school bands. Even in places where there are some very good competitive bands, the availability is extremely limited. In an other thread recently, someone made mention of perennial BOA contender L.D. Bell H.S., from Texas. Can any BOA fans on here tell us of the bands from the other two schools in that district? I find it hard to consider the relatively small number of students being offered these types of opportunities to be an equivalent replacement for the role once served by local drum and bugle corps. I don't have statistics on total number of students involved one way or another, but I don't believe that all high school students that are in a band have access to a program that is a similar experience to drum and bugle corps.

Edited, to add disclaimer: This rant is in no way intended to cast disparagement on any band program, local or otherwise. The band performances I have seen are indeed very well performed, and are a credit to the students and teachers involved. It is just my opinion that they are not the equivalent of a drum corps experience, and that there is still a role that can be served by local corps.

Edited by j.morgus
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But one difference you didn't mention was that there were more local shows in 1978 than 2008. And the cost to attend those local shows was a couple of bucks. IIRC about the same price as going to the movies. And couple of those shows weren't much farther than my dads commute to work. But that unemployment and gas prices helped to kill the local shows that I used to attend and compete at in 1978.

One of the reasons there were more people attending more shows, is that there were more local shows...... just more shows period. Also, if we use 1980 as the benchmark, AFTER the malaise of the late 70's , we STILL had more fans attending Drum Corps shows across the Country. ( we also had the 27th Lancers promiently displayed to millions of people on TV world wide at both the Opening and Closing Ceremonies at the 1980 Winter Olympics in Lake Placid, N.Y. )

In the 60's and 70's there were several weekly radio broadcast shows broadcasting Drum Corps music... on COMMERCIAL radio.... which meant funds were raised thru advertisers that recognized a popular appeal.

Until recently, PBS and or ESPN viewers got to watch the Finals of DCI on TV.

But here in 2009, TV and commercial radio are no longer outlets for the Drum Corps activity.

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John, while everything you said is true, it holds just as true for the local model of drum corps. If there's not one in your neighborhood then you don't have that option either. Even assuming there were over 1000 corps spread across the country at the activity's peak, that's hardly enough to have given every youth in the country a chance to march close to home.

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Not to mention the higher multitude of entertainment options and more competition for publicity...

I'm not saying that new drum corps is better than old drum corps, or the inverse of that, either. I think all eras of any art or sport have their merits. I'm just contesting the premise the new drum corps aren't entertaining, and that the corps have driven off scads of people with their programming choices.

I also question the "good old days" arguments. I believe that in 30 years, there are going to be people my age making the same claims as some of you in this thread, about how much better things were "back in my day," because frankly, that just how things seem to work. People often look fondly at only the good things in their youth, and I'm sure that in a few decades, there will be people that discount the corps of being unable to match the intensity of 99 SCV, the crowd-appeal of 08 Regiment, or touch the visual creativity of 02 Cavies... Things change, and for many, change from what got them passionate about the activity is bad as opposed to different.

Whatevs- this is a tired argument, and I've said my piece. The "dinosaurs" will continue hate on the new stuff, the "young punks" will continue to champion the current, and a quiet majority of us in the middle will just continue to enjoy, appreciate, and support this wonderful activity as it changes and evolves.

Maybe I’m flattering myself that you are responding, in some part, to my posts, but here goes anyway.

Some clarification is in order.

- I don’t hate modern shows. I find them less entertaining than I expect.

- While I speak only for myself, most dinosaurs I correspond with respect the heck out of the talent and dedication of today’s corps.

- I don’t know how many people have been driven away from drum corps because of “modern” show design. I still go to drum corps shows even though I don’t fully appreciate some elements of the design.

I also expect also that more than a few of the current generation will grow into the “it was better back in my day” mode. Start a thread on when woodwinds will be legalized and you can get a quick count of candidates for future dinosaurdom. I have no advice on how to deal with future hypocrisy.

For now, please be careful when you debate today’s dinosaurs. Listen carefully to (or read carefully) their arguments. Don’t put words in other peoples’ mouths and don’t state your opinions, no matter how widely shared you might believe they are, with fact. “a quiet majority of us in the middle will just continue to enjoy, appreciate, and support this wonderful activity as it changes and evolves” is an opinion.

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One of the reasons there were more people attending more shows, is that there were more local shows...... just more shows period. Also, if we use 1980 as the benchmark, AFTER the malaise of the late 70's , we STILL had more fans attending Drum Corps shows across the Country. ( we also had the 27th Lancers promiently displayed to millions of people on TV world wide at both the Opening and Closing Ceremonies at the 1980 Winter Olympics in Lake Placid, N.Y. )

In the 60's and 70's there were several weekly radio broadcast shows broadcasting Drum Corps music... on COMMERCIAL radio.... which meant funds were raised thru advertisers that recognized a popular appeal.

Until recently, PBS and or ESPN viewers got to watch the Finals of DCI on TV.

But here in 2009, TV and commercial radio are no longer outlets for the Drum Corps activity.

LOL, somehow I thought someone else made your earlier post so I misread the intent....

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