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One of the main differences these days, I feel, is that each show seems expected to "flow" for the full 11 minutes rather than get chopped into 4 or 5 distinctive pieces.

When an arranger was worrying about those pieces he had to build hit points at the end of each and so on and make sure that they worked in and of themselves as pieces. I first remember the Devils taking a piece in the early 2000's and interweaving different stuff in there for 6 minutes rather than the "do one tune then switch to the next" approach of the past. This has affected the structure of shows.

I have mixed feelings about it to be honest, on the upside: you can be more creative and flowing; one the downside: the pieces can easily lose focus, meander, be choppy, etc.

A second thing is the pause after a number ended allowed the audience time to applaud! The "flow" means you feel if you make noise then you're missing something, the moments provided are simply not long enough for you to react. it's a bit like being in a concert hall between movements of a symphony (cue "wind band ensemble" comment here).

I love drumcorps, past and present, but I do wonder if some modern shows couldn't benefit from a little more musical development and perhaps be a little less frenetic to allow the audience in. Sometimes the emotion of the past doesn't seem to translate as well these days (although I think this is largely because of the lack of strong thematic development). Blue Stars show in 08 I felt, just "had it", emotion. I'm just not sure why.

Not sure if I'm making my point here very clearly.

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One of the main differences these days, I feel, is that each show seems expected to "flow" for the full 11 minutes rather than get chopped into 4 or 5 distinctive pieces.

When an arranger was worrying about those pieces he had to build hit points at the end of each and so on and make sure that they worked in and of themselves as pieces. I first remember the Devils taking a piece in the early 2000's and interweaving different stuff in there for 6 minutes rather than the "do one tune then switch to the next" approach of the past. This has affected the structure of shows.

I have mixed feelings about it to be honest, on the upside: you can be more creative and flowing; one the downside: the pieces can easily lose focus, meander, be choppy, etc.

A second thing is the pause after a number ended allowed the audience time to applaud! The "flow" means you feel if you make noise then you're missing something, the moments provided are simply not long enough for you to react. it's a bit like being in a concert hall between movements of a symphony (cue "wind band ensemble" comment here).

I love drumcorps, past and present, but I do wonder if some modern shows couldn't benefit from a little more musical development and perhaps be a little less frenetic to allow the audience in. Sometimes the emotion of the past doesn't seem to translate as well these days (although I think this is largely because of the lack of strong thematic development). Blue Stars show in 08 I felt, just "had it", emotion. I'm just not sure why.

Not sure if I'm making my point here very clearly.

Agree on all points. One of the reasons I like Crown's show this year...five distinct pieces (not including the pre-show), with time to applaud between each. Gives the show structure that you just don't see in a show that's meant to "flow" for 11 minutes (like BD this year). I think that sort of structure is ultimately best for drum corps shows.

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One of the main differences these days, I feel, is that each show seems expected to "flow" for the full 11 minutes rather than get chopped into 4 or 5 distinctive pieces.

When an arranger was worrying about those pieces he had to build hit points at the end of each and so on and make sure that they worked in and of themselves as pieces. I first remember the Devils taking a piece in the early 2000's and interweaving different stuff in there for 6 minutes rather than the "do one tune then switch to the next" approach of the past. This has affected the structure of shows.

I have mixed feelings about it to be honest, on the upside: you can be more creative and flowing; one the downside: the pieces can easily lose focus, meander, be choppy, etc.

A second thing is the pause after a number ended allowed the audience time to applaud! The "flow" means you feel if you make noise then you're missing something, the moments provided are simply not long enough for you to react. it's a bit like being in a concert hall between movements of a symphony (cue "wind band ensemble" comment here).

I love drumcorps, past and present, but I do wonder if some modern shows couldn't benefit from a little more musical development and perhaps be a little less frenetic to allow the audience in. Sometimes the emotion of the past doesn't seem to translate as well these days (although I think this is largely because of the lack of strong thematic development). Blue Stars show in 08 I felt, just "had it", emotion. I'm just not sure why.

Not sure if I'm making my point here very clearly.

:bigsmile::tongue:

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Agree on all points. One of the reasons I like Crown's show this year...five distinct pieces (not including the pre-show), with time to applaud between each. Gives the show structure that you just don't see in a show that's meant to "flow" for 11 minutes (like BD this year). I think that sort of structure is ultimately best for drum corps shows.

Actually now that you mention it, Crown's show was the first one I latched onto this year, I think it may be something to do with how we "chunk" music or something. I think you're on to something Jeff. Love if I could find some serious analysis of this kind of thought.

Just went back to watch Barbara Moroney's "I Have A Love" solo from Garfield '84 a moment ago - can you imagine a modern show allowing that much space for a performance? And it's lovely, it works now, not just then.

It's very difficult to write about this kind of stuff without getting into a slagging match as we say here in Ireland.

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I am at the DCI show in Atlanta on Saturday and I was bored out of my mind. I've marched for years in corps from the 60's up to 2002 plus I attended music college.

To me these corps want to run faster than ever on the field , with no power, since corps back in the day with 30 horns were louder than 70 person lines today.

The music to me seems like a bunch of guys wanting to get their masters in composition. They take a melody and mix it up and twist it so that it hardly if ever resembles what they say it is suppose to be. If I want to hear west side story then play it... Next thing they will do porgy and bess, but make it a happy one, with country and symphonic overtures, with various key changes, Brilliant. Back when drum corp was in the business of entertaining (I know a bad thing) people came to shows to enjoy it and they did not have to be a middle, high or college marching student to understand it, they just came to be entertained. Most at the show were students, people who have marched or parents of kids in corps. People around me said this would be their last show, since they did not recognize one musical piece.

Bring back the entertainment of playing loud and having regular people get excited about watching drum corp.

Welcome to modern drumcorps. The "good ole days" are gone forever. Believe me, I'm with you on many of your points. Plus it doesn't help any that this is a "ho-hum" year. The shows just aren't very exciting this year.

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I love drumcorps, past and present, but I do wonder if some modern shows couldn't benefit from a little more musical development and perhaps be a little less frenetic to allow the audience in. Sometimes the emotion of the past doesn't seem to translate as well these days (although I think this is largely because of the lack of strong thematic development). Blue Stars show in 08 I felt, just "had it", emotion. I'm just not sure why.

There you go. Something I've been trying to put down in words for a long time but couldn't think of them.

Thanks!

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I miss the trombones from marching band. and I want bass clarinets. well, just give me all the clarinets then as well--but no saxes. A couple of flutes wouldn't hurt--

About the volume thing: do you think corps are not as loud because they have kids "sucking on their horns"-- ie. not playing the parts--just executing the super athletic drill? As that what's going on here? Because if so--I don't think a horn is as appealing visually is a flag would be--just give them all flags and have them run around on the field doing syncronised gymnastics--

I'm sure w/ the scoring weighted to the visual captions someone could win DCI by just having a mic'd pit orchestra and a dancing color guard.-- well obvious exageration but you get the idea.

No I wouldn't say they're sucking on their horns. I'm pretty sure it's just the approach their brass staff is taking in addition to the fact that they aren't playing bugles.

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This volume argument is getting ridiculous.

The way some people make it sound is that the hornlines of old were 2 or 3 times louder than today's brass. I simply refuse to believe this. I'll admit... I never heard live drum corps until 2002, but I have two music degrees and generally know how musical instruments work.

I do think that past hornlines probably were a little louder (because of the instruments dimensions), but the difference in loudness can not have been more than 9 or 10%.

If you watch many of the corps today closely when they are hitting their "power chords", the members are pushing serious air through the horns. Why would they spend so much time doing breathing exercises if they weren't going to really go for it?

And why do hornlines need to be that much freakin' louder than they already are? At one show last year, I was sitting about 30 rows up and the Bluecoats' "park 'n bark" section literally hurt my ears.... and it wasn't just me.... others I was with agreed. I really can't see why anyone needs more sound than we have now to get excited.

If you really want loud sustained noises, please go see a NASCAR race. If you sit close enough at one of those, you won't have to goo back to drum corps to get your 'loud fix.'

And as for the G vs. Bb debate.... what about in 2000? Weren't Cadets on Bb's and Cavaliers on G's.... How did their volume levels compare? Wasn't the first big hit in the Cadets' show one of the loudest moments in DCI that year?

I think hornlines were louder back in the day...even if you compare early 90's to today. Some of the hornlines of the past could put out more volume because they didn't mind going past the point where the instrument starts to get crass...I'm not trying to make a value judgment with that term but it's the only one I could think of. Bugles tended to project more cuz, well, that's what they were designed to do. Today there seems to be a tendency to try to stop short of becoming crass when it comes to projecting volume...again, I'm not trying to assign a value pro or con...just trying to clarify.

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Seems I'm in the minority here, but I certainly agree with the original post. I left the dome very disapointed from show standpoints and the changes I witnessed in drum corps from my last show attended.

I understand that times are going to change which means drastic changes to drum corps. I hadn't been to a show in some five years and I was stunned at all the changes......piped in sounds???? (just ridiculous). Blue Devils with white stripes from head to toe???? wow. But, I guess those are just the changes over the years I've missed, and while I don't like them, it's just the way it is.

My biggest thing, though, were the shows for two reasons.

First.....pretty much all were just flat boring. I'll admit Crown and Boston were really cool, but even those could have been so much more. Where have the "WOW" moments gone in drum corps? You know what I mean by the "WOW" moment....that big drill move, drum break, horn break, anything that draws an explosive crowd reaction. That was missing. And it obviously wasn't just me. You could tell by the crowd. I literally watched people in the stands dosing off during shows. It's those "WOW" moments that leave the lasting memories...... Cadets and the Z-pull, Phantom's 360 spin in the wedge, Cavies fight club, Blue Devils screaming sops and drums beating the ever leaving sh** out of the heads, Scouts and the rotating company front and charging forward, etc etc etc. There are ZERO memorable moments in the shows I saw this year and it was evident by the lack of standing ovations during the shows and the subdued standing ovations after the shows that seemed more like courtesy standing Os than an excited throwing babies reaction.

I don't care that shows are more sophisticated or whatever the excuse. Hell, you could play the life and death of a butterfly, but by god do something to get the crowd off their butts. That's what has always made drum corps exciting.

Second, it really seems corps have lost some of their identity of sound. In the past, all the way up until I quit going to shows a few years ago, you could close your eyes, put a show on and immediately tell which corps it was by their sound. That doesn't seem to be the case now. Everyone just sounds the same. It's not the change to B-flat horns because like I said, I could tell corps apart a few years ago. Something seems to have happened in the last five years.

OK...I'm off my soapbox. And on a side note, I'm happy to be a part of the DCP now with my first ever post.

I would say that a big problem is this year is just one of those bleh years. I (and maybe I'm just filled with wishful/naive thinking) think the past 3-4 years leading up to this year were much more entertaining than the early 2000's. I felt that lyrical arrangements (ie complete musical ideas) were being rewarded again. I understand that you may not be getting those "holy shiznitch" moments from MOST corps, but I thought the impulsive/visceral response of the crowd to Phantom last year was reminiscent of crowd reactions to some of the most beloved shows of the past. The fact that a show like that could actually win in this day and age is a very good thing. I say this because corps tend to move toward whatever is being rewarded. When constructing the music to fit the visual (ie motif driven instead of melody driven music) was getting rewarded, we saw a good percentage of the corps move in that direction. Now, I think melody is being rewarded or is at least being given a fighting chance. Again, I think this year just happens to be one of those down years design-wise. I think the trend toward melody is still intact but the shows just seem a little flat. Next year, I'll be curious to see if this year turns out to be a trend or a blip.

As to why so many corps sound the same, well, that may have to do with the fact that staffs seem to be a lot more transient than they used to be. I mean, who would've ever thought that a BD caption head would be teaching at Cadets?

:thumbup:

I've been to every finals since 1983 and Bloomington ranks very high on my list of "Best DC Stadiums".

As to show design and execution: I was watching some old videos of shows and interviews on the not-to-be-named site and saw one interview with a member of SCV in ***1973***. He was lamenting that the fans were constantly complaining that year that DC had changed too much and they missed the "good old days" of the 1960's shows. He said, "The fans just don't seem ready for our new way of designing shows. But we just keep cleaning it - they'll catch on." Hmmm...what goes around comes around.

Back in the early '80s I sold MagnaEars to DC fans after watching so many fans "cupping" their ears to get more volume (and to try to block out the screaming fan next to them!). They were designed by an audiologist engineer to focus the sound directly into your ear canal without distorting or losing any of the sound frequencies. They sold very well and, last year in Bloomington, I saw a fan 10 rows above me still wearing his! Wow!

MagnaEars1.jpg

MagnaEars2.jpg

The point is that the OP's disagreements with current drum corps are not new and, in fact, have been debated for, literally, DECADES! The term most often used is most eloquently applicable to this geeky activity: Creative Destruction.

I totally agree with you man and you reminded me of something I've been meaning to ask.

Does anyone know what reaction the OLD old timers had the first time a drum corps dared to play jazz on the field? How 'bout the first time they dared to play something other than a march? I've got a feeling crossing these two lines were probably sacrilege at some point. Anybody have grandparents out there who can answer this one for me?

Edited by Medeabrass
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"drum corps" these days is really glorified BOA.....i hate it cause i LOVE drum corps but if we dont get a grip....we'll have woodwinds and choirs and and it will be identical to boa in a few years.

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