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[Medeabrass]

"drum corps" these days is really glorified BOA.....i hate it cause i LOVE drum corps but if we dont get a grip....we'll have woodwinds and choirs and and it will be identical to boa in a few years.

another one of the classic DCP debates...I've never seen a BOA event but I'd say that bands are either trying to emulate drum corps and thus the similarities or it might be that a lot of people who teach in drum corps also happen to teach highschool band and thus the similarities. Woodwinds would be too expensive and would be proven to be too prone to withering under the wear and tear of a drum corps summer to ever realistically make it on the DC field. Drum corps have been singing on the field for decades so I guess we missed the boat on the choir thing.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Medeabrass

[jdpk3000]

another one of the classic DCP debates...I've never seen a BOA event but I'd say that bands are either trying to emulate drum corps and thus the similarities or it might be that a lot of people who teach in drum corps also happen to teach highschool band and thus the similarities. Woodwinds would be too expensive and would be proven to be too prone to withering under the wear and tear of a drum corps summer to ever realistically make it on the DC field. Drum corps have been singing on the field for decades so I guess we missed the boat on the choir thing.

Well no drum corps is changing rapidally and i believe some is good and some is not so good......and the point of not have woodwinds on the field hsa nothing to do with cost.....come on.......and there is difference between a corps singing a chord and someone grabbing a mic and singing which a corps has done in the last 5 years but has since been banned that God but that doesnt mean that they wont turn it over

[jjeffeory]

This volume argument is getting ridiculous.

The way some people make it sound is that the hornlines of old were 2 or 3 times louder than today's brass. I simply refuse to believe this. I'll admit... I never heard live drum corps until 2002, but I have two music degrees and generally know how musical instruments work.

I do think that past hornlines probably were a little louder (because of the instruments dimensions), but the difference in loudness can not have been more than 9 or 10%.

If you watch many of the corps today closely when they are hitting their "power chords", the members are pushing serious air through the horns. Why would they spend so much time doing breathing exercises if they weren't going to really go for it?

And why do hornlines need to be that much freakin' louder than they already are? At one show last year, I was sitting about 30 rows up and the Bluecoats' "park 'n bark" section literally hurt my ears.... and it wasn't just me.... others I was with agreed. I really can't see why anyone needs more sound than we have now to get excited.

If you really want loud sustained noises, please go see a NASCAR race. If you sit close enough at one of those, you won't have to goo back to drum corps to get your 'loud fix.'

And as for the G vs. Bb debate.... what about in 2000? Weren't Cadets on Bb's and Cavaliers on G's.... How did their volume levels compare? Wasn't the first big hit in the Cadets' show one of the loudest moments in DCI that year?

There's nothing like "feeling" the sound of a G horn. I dunno. I like both sounds and wish both were still around.

[jjeffeory]

honestly, after watching the latest fan network stuff:

i dont think it's what they choose to play. i think it's the arrangement of it.

Bingo! This is the problem. Plain and simple. The arrangements don't pass muster.

[jjeffeory]

Seems I'm in the minority here, but I certainly agree with the original post. I left the dome very disapointed from show standpoints and the changes I witnessed in drum corps from my last show attended.

I understand that times are going to change which means drastic changes to drum corps. I hadn't been to a show in some five years and I was stunned at all the changes......piped in sounds???? (just ridiculous). Blue Devils with white stripes from head to toe???? wow. But, I guess those are just the changes over the years I've missed, and while I don't like them, it's just the way it is.

My biggest thing, though, were the shows for two reasons.

First.....pretty much all were just flat boring. I'll admit Crown and Boston were really cool, but even those could have been so much more. Where have the "WOW" moments gone in drum corps? You know what I mean by the "WOW" moment....that big drill move, drum break, horn break, anything that draws an explosive crowd reaction. That was missing. And it obviously wasn't just me. You could tell by the crowd. I literally watched people in the stands dosing off during shows. It's those "WOW" moments that leave the lasting memories...... Cadets and the Z-pull, Phantom's 360 spin in the wedge, Cavies fight club, Blue Devils screaming sops and drums beating the ever leaving sh** out of the heads, Scouts and the rotating company front and charging forward, etc etc etc. There are ZERO memorable moments in the shows I saw this year and it was evident by the lack of standing ovations during the shows and the subdued standing ovations after the shows that seemed more like courtesy standing Os than an excited throwing babies reaction.

I don't care that shows are more sophisticated or whatever the excuse. Hell, you could play the life and death of a butterfly, but by god do something to get the crowd off their butts. That's what has always made drum corps exciting.

Second, it really seems corps have lost some of their identity of sound. In the past, all the way up until I quit going to shows a few years ago, you could close your eyes, put a show on and immediately tell which corps it was by their sound. That doesn't seem to be the case now. Everyone just sounds the same. It's not the change to B-flat horns because like I said, I could tell corps apart a few years ago. Something seems to have happened in the last five years.

OK...I'm off my soapbox. And on a side note, I'm happy to be a part of the DCP now with my first ever post.

This is just a continuation of the homoginization of America. The highs and lows are taken out. It's playing to the lowest common denominator. It's bland food. This is what scores well. It's safe and guaranteed a return. No big risk taking going on. Yup, that's pretty much the state of things everywhere.

[Medeabrass]

Well no drum corps is changing rapidally and i believe some is good and some is not so good......and the point of not have woodwinds on the field hsa nothing to do with cost.....come on.......and there is difference between a corps singing a chord and someone grabbing a mic and singing which a corps has done in the last 5 years but has since been banned that God but that doesnt mean that they wont turn it over

I didn't know that singing into a mic was banned. I just figured that it was so obvious that it didn't work so most corps decided to avoid it. I seem to remember that when mics were legalized we also saw a lot more of the "narration." That fad has run it's course and now we only see it used sparingly.

So if woodwinds aren't cost prohibitive, you imply that there is another reason we don't have them on the field then. What is that reason? Honestly, I don't care to fret over it. I'll deal with my reaction to it when/if it arrives but I'm just going to enjoy what today has to offer in the mean time. Petitions, hate mail to Hopkins, and gnashing of teeth on dcp have not stopped the other changes. I can live with this new crap for now...I'll burn the bridge of oboes and bassoons when/if I'm forced to consider it.

And I still hold to my premise that woodwinds would be too expensive. You would have to either decrease your membership in other captions (something I don't think you would ever see) or increase DC membership to say 200 people...not going to happen. And yes, woodwinds are too expensive for too little payoff.

What do you suggest we do in order to keep woodwinds out of the activity anyways?

[The Other Mike]

I am at the DCI show in Atlanta on Saturday and I was bored out of my mind. I've marched for years in corps from the 60's up to 2002 plus I attended music college.

To me these corps want to run faster than ever on the field , with no power, since corps back in the day with 30 horns were louder than 70 person lines today.

The music to me seems like a bunch of guys wanting to get their masters in composition. They take a melody and mix it up and twist it so that it hardly if ever resembles what they say it is suppose to be. If I want to hear west side story then play it... Next thing they will do porgy and bess, but make it a happy one, with country and symphonic overtures, with various key changes, Brilliant. Back when drum corp was in the business of entertaining (I know a bad thing) people came to shows to enjoy it and they did not have to be a middle, high or college marching student to understand it, they just came to be entertained. Most at the show were students, people who have marched or parents of kids in corps. People around me said this would be their last show, since they did not recognize one musical piece.

Bring back the entertainment of playing loud and having regular people get excited about watching drum corp.

Thanks ALOT.

Just 8 pages into this and I realize whats wrong with almost everything in our country today. Thanks to you, we have pages FILLED with band parents and Dc groupies who have never marched rioting in the thread. How dare you speak your mind and point to the elephant in the room ?

So what if the majority of corps are not entertaining to the experienced DC fan or the musically educated ?

As long as the uneducated think they know what they are speaking of because they have gone to a few shows, just who are you to highlight their ignorance ? Next thing you know you will be saying the health package is no good just because NO ONE UNDERSTANDS IT ? How dare you !

Keep in mind that there are no threads where professionals in the field can discuss the items you brought up without suffering from the rage of the ignorant and if you try ? Watch out for those who admittly have little experience but are proud to use their positions within the forum world to threaten you.

While I don't agree with your post 100%, many interesting points were brought up only to be bashed by doubting Thomas's who have no experience with DC, nor the history behind them to speak with any brain matter in use. They LAUGH at the old park and blows, but at least the old park and blows included the drumline and didn't sent them to the sideline or goal line for a minute or so while the horns ran 16th note scales while being overpowered by the melodics. Of course when the battery does play, they cover most of the runs with rimshots to cover the attacks. What a shame so few people can actually see behind the gimmicks.

It's people like you PCrawford that take a dump in the punchbowl and stir up the flies and maggots that end up gagging the rest of us. THANKS ALOT. Next time just drink the Kool Aide and go with the flow. Drum Corps Marching Bands International = good, and leave it at that.

After reading just 8 pages of this, I seriously wonder about music education today. If these answers are in any way reflective of what ME has done for this country ? It's time to start coaching football where at least you can knock the idiots on their butts when they open their mouths with something ignorant.

I can think of at least one person I'd like to see on the field.

[VOReason]

On a more important note .. I just noticed I'm a DCP Veteran now!!!

I kinda torn between congratulating you and feeling sorry for you.....BTW, drum corps today are amazing. True...it is not some folks cup of tea, however that's why they make the "off" button.

[The Other Mike]

This is just a continuation of the homoginization of America. The highs and lows are taken out. It's playing to the lowest common denominator. It's bland food. This is what scores well. It's safe and guaranteed a return. No big risk taking going on. Yup, that's pretty much the state of things everywhere.

[The Other Mike]

This volume argument is getting ridiculous.

The way some people make it sound is that the hornlines of old were 2 or 3 times louder than today's brass. I simply refuse to believe this. I'll admit... I never heard live drum corps until 2002, but I have two music degrees and generally know how musical instruments work.

The biggest problem was that we could not focus on intonation since our ears were bleeding from the POWER. You can't wince, cover your ears and still be snooty about the refinements of the music.

My college professors in the 70's considered DC a joke because of the lack of refinement traded for simple power. (Of course all the while asking us who marched to design the shows and work the music )

What they do today is amazing, but I do miss the power pushing you back in your seat.

I'd be happy with a nice mix of power AND refinement but I can't imagine trying to get THAT kind of power with todays fast paced drill.

SCV was the only one to give me a taste of power this year, several gave it to me last year.