Jeff Ream Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 1996 DCA FINALS: 9 corps from the northeast and 1 corps from the midwest comprised the top ten.2009 DCA FINALS:6 corps from the east/north east, 2 corps from the south,1 corps from the west and 1 corps from the midwest will most likely comprise the top ten. 1986 DCA: no such division as "class A." 2009 DCA: Class A is healthy and has corps from all over the country as members. 1993 DCA: A total of 13 corps attended DCA finals and prelims. 2009 DCA: A total of 26 plus corps attending DCA finals and prelims.(my best guess,based on 09 numbers). 1986 DCA: No alumni corps in existance. 2009 DCA: Sunday "Alumni Spectacular" with 8 or 9 of the countries Alumni corps in attendance.( again,my best guess) 1986 DCA: NO I&E Competitions exist. 2009 DCA: I & E competitions on Friday night,as always. 1986 DCA: No such thing as "Mini Corps". 2009 DCA: Mini corps competition on Friday night. This is called growth. You can say all you want, these are the facts. Dude,your comments only serve to "paint yourself into a corner." A far more proactive response is to fill one of the 5 spots that have come open at mini corps championships,attain membership and draft a proposal that would address your concerns. DISCLAIMER: I am getting up in my years,and some of my numbers may be off a bit. There are SO MANY corps today,it's hard to keep track and I can't remember every tiny detail from every DCA season I was a part of. However,I have been around long enough to remember when Steel City Ambassadors was called: "DCA WEST" and Minn.Brass needed a "visa" to cross the PA.State line, and a little remembered corps from Alliance Ohio (Ohio Brass Factory) never did make the night show! My how things have changed for the BETTER! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 2005, 26 corps competing at prelims (16/10 Open/A)2006, 23 corps competing at prelims (16/7 Open/A) 2007, 22 corps competing at prelims (13/9 Open/A) 2008, 24 corps competing at prelims (12/12 Open/A) 2009, ??? 2008, 2 DCA sanctioned shows in state 2009, 0 DCA sanctioned shows (but there was one DCA judged show where NO ONE got a score) Since the 35 rule hit the market (post 2006), growth is stagnant. Except for minicorps, that for many is their ONLY remaining option. And for others requires a complete show redesign (drum feature? guard feature?). And for those with 22 to 34, in the ABSENCE of DCA, their season can end as early as JUNE, instead of at labor day(SEPTEMBER). And IMO that does NOT promote growth. It's almost like major league baseball encourage growth by banning half the minor leagues from playing scored games. And it's just a number, 35 that is. There was already an implied 22 minimum. And since there's no problem moving it to a hard 35, then there's no issue moving it to 50, after five years of building and finally getting that 35th member. It's the nature of the rule, and therefor the nature of those who voted for it. IN MY OPINION. Not to prolong this senseless debate on sensless rules geared towards keeping corps OUT of competition for YEARS at a time. it's not senseless Shadow. show sponsors complained about corps under 35 members. want to kill DCA? #### off show sponsors. It's not like they are knocking down doors to host shows. but you dont hear that. shame, if you recruited as much as you #####ed, you could probably have 80 members Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 The pit has worked all season long on their performance using amps...playing style, mallet selection, volume, phrasing...etc. Trying to be a little this and a little that would end up making them not much of either, IMO. wow. Mike and I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Mike I hardly ever disagree with you, but the one year waiting period is a good one... we can't have corps bouncing back and forth ... it's clean and simple... If a corps has competed junior, they must wait 1 year before declaring all aged.this is appropriate and recognizes the fact - Viva La Difference Why can't there be corps "bouncing back and forth"? Who is it going to hurt? I don't understand. Are the DCA corps afraid of being beaten by Pioneer or VK? Wouldn't be great to get more corps at local shows? BD, Cadets, or Cavies are not going to DCA Championships, eliminate the rule. I don't think the money would be worth any of the top DCI corps to attend any DCA show. If nothing else, alter the rule to not allow corps who compete in DCI that year not be allowed to compete at DCA Championships. Let them participate in local shows. If a DCI corps participates in a local show or two, maybe they will see it as a full time option down the road. Right now there are no options for DCI age corps. Why would DCA not look at this as a way to potentially increase the numbr of corps? Maybe bring in some different fans? The electronics thing can be handled by a penalty. Big enough to matter, but small enough to keep them attending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_7 Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 it's not senseless Shadow. show sponsors complained about corps under 35 members.want to kill DCA? #### off show sponsors. It's not like they are knocking down doors to host shows. but you dont hear that. shame, if you recruited as much as you #####ed, you could probably have 80 members Which came first the chicken or the egg? Corps that can't exist without shows? or Shows that can't exist without corps? Apparently I can't have anything. Too many types on here telling me to find a new hobby. And get the heck out of drumcorps. Too many claiming that my last THREE YEARS of playing in a drumcorps was NOTHING. Glad to know years of my life, hundreds of hours, thousands of dollars is so well received. Want to kill the activity, tell everyone that cares to go away / find a new activity. Like me. Meanwhile any OC corps that wants to make the jump, has to jump through a lot of hoops and go some 22 months between scores. Not that you have to worry about flip flopping, once you make the flip, you can't exactly cut half of your overage members to jump back. Unless you consider recruiting 90 new member EVERY year as NORMAL. Or DCI finally raises the age limit thing by a significant amount. Of course I'm just looking at a small number of years. The 35 rule has only been a place a small number of years. And while good for DCI All Age, SDCA, MCA, and everything EXCEPT DCA. It's not good in general. Fewer NEW corps in DCA is still FEWER corps for DCA. Perhaps DCP should just start an all-age / NON-DCA forum for the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Which came first the chicken or the egg? Corps that can't exist without shows? or Shows that can't exist without corps? Both...and both have to work together. I'm not very happy about the 35 minimum either, but you've been carrying the whining on for YEARS now....no one really wants to listen to you any more BECAUSE OF YOUR INCESSANT WHINING! This has been said to you over and over and OVER AND OVER again...you refuse to listen, and now you're ending up being the only person in the room, because the rest of us have moved on to actually try to make things work within the system as it stands. If you were to ever come out for En Garde when we get going, I woudl NOT want you in the corps because of your attitude...no way, no how. Apparently I can't have anything. Too many types on here telling me to find a new hobby. And get the heck out of drumcorps. Too many claiming that my last THREE YEARS of playing in a drumcorps was NOTHING. Glad to know years of my life, hundreds of hours, thousands of dollars is so well received. Want to kill the activity, tell everyone that cares to go away / find a new activity. Like me. Oh please....come down off your cross, someone else needs the wood ($1 to LisaLeesaMomeesa). No one's disparaging your extensive corps experience...we ARE, however, disparaging your continual exposure of your 5 year old mentality. Meanwhile any OC corps that wants to make the jump, has to jump through a lot of hoops and go some 22 months between scores. Not that you have to worry about flip flopping, once you make the flip, you can't exactly cut half of your overage members to jump back. Unless you consider recruiting 90 new member EVERY year as NORMAL. Or DCI finally raises the age limit thing by a significant amount. That I will agree with....but only because it's correct logistically. Of course I'm just looking at a small number of years. The 35 rule has only been a place a small number of years. And while good for DCI All Age, SDCA, MCA, and everything EXCEPT DCA. It's not good in general. Fewer NEW corps in DCA is still FEWER corps for DCA. Perhaps DCP should just start an all-age / NON-DCA forum for the rest of us. The 35 rule does not apply to DCI all age....DCI's minimum is 30...all age or jr doesn't matter...so big, bad DCI is actually MORE lenient than DCA re corps size...huh...go fig. DCA cannot grow larger than it's ability to handle...if every DCA corps went to Rochester, they could not handle the crush unless they started prelims WAY earlier or dropped I&E or alum corps. You have a VERY bad victim mentality....one like no other on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 sorry...now you know how I feel Fair enough -- and thanks for your responses. You're probably right about the with/without toys scenario. I guess my point is to leave it up to the corps to decide what works for them and what's important to them. I do think that tweaking the one-year rule could still serve its purpose for DCA while allowing some of these OC and lower end WC corps to help themselves a little. I also agree that it would probably be difficult for an OC corps to compete long-term with DCA and still maintain their age restrictions. Again, those things I think would work themselves out over time if corps were allowed a little better flexibility to "test the waters". Anyway, this is a good discussion and I think there's been some good ideas and I'm satisfied that I've made my points clearly enough. If we disagree a little, that's cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Which came first the chicken or the egg? Corps that can't exist without shows? or Shows that can't exist without corps?Apparently I can't have anything. Too many types on here telling me to find a new hobby. And get the heck out of drumcorps. Too many claiming that my last THREE YEARS of playing in a drumcorps was NOTHING. Glad to know years of my life, hundreds of hours, thousands of dollars is so well received. Want to kill the activity, tell everyone that cares to go away / find a new activity. Like me. Meanwhile any OC corps that wants to make the jump, has to jump through a lot of hoops and go some 22 months between scores. Not that you have to worry about flip flopping, once you make the flip, you can't exactly cut half of your overage members to jump back. Unless you consider recruiting 90 new member EVERY year as NORMAL. Or DCI finally raises the age limit thing by a significant amount. Of course I'm just looking at a small number of years. The 35 rule has only been a place a small number of years. And while good for DCI All Age, SDCA, MCA, and everything EXCEPT DCA. It's not good in general. Fewer NEW corps in DCA is still FEWER corps for DCA. Perhaps DCP should just start an all-age / NON-DCA forum for the rest of us. yet again Shadow: DCA can not be all things to all people. and as far the chicken/egg issue...if people dont want to host shows anymore, the corps have nowhere to go. even the ones who can recruit successfully. i dont want you to go away. I just want you to find 40 people that will actually stay. if you keep losing people, then maybe, look at why and change something so they stop bailing. or...##### and moan on DCP. that'll help recruit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Both...and both have to work together. I'm not very happy about the 35 minimum either, but you've been carrying the whining on for YEARS now....no one really wants to listen to you any more BECAUSE OF YOUR INCESSANT WHINING! This has been said to you over and over and OVER AND OVER again...you refuse to listen, and now you're ending up being the only person in the room, because the rest of us have moved on to actually try to make things work within the system as it stands. If you were to ever come out for En Garde when we get going, I woudl NOT want you in the corps because of your attitude...no way, no how. Oh please....come down off your cross, someone else needs the wood ($1 to LisaLeesaMomeesa). No one's disparaging your extensive corps experience...we ARE, however, disparaging your continual exposure of your 5 year old mentality. That I will agree with....but only because it's correct logistically. The 35 rule does not apply to DCI all age....DCI's minimum is 30...all age or jr doesn't matter...so big, bad DCI is actually MORE lenient than DCA re corps size...huh...go fig. DCA cannot grow larger than it's ability to handle...if every DCA corps went to Rochester, they could not handle the crush unless they started prelims WAY earlier or dropped I&E or alum corps. You have a VERY bad victim mentality....one like no other on this board. well then he could ##### that mini corps was limited to 10 instead of 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldStyleCorps Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 (edited) "train" DCA judges to use the DCI sheets. Which brings back a QUESTION that I asked already. "How many DCA Judges are ALSO "DCI Judges"? I bet the answer is almost ALL. OH and by the way. Are you saying that the DCI judges on the WEST COAST that use "DCA sheets" are not properly trained to do DCA Corps? Edited August 2, 2009 by OldStyleCorps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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