kstein Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I don't think '76 BD sounded or looked that much different than Madison '75. Other than "tubed" tenors (and a killer drum book! ) what was innovative about them in '76 or '77?Yes, they have a formula that works for them and it's the same formula they've been using for 30 years! I'm constantly reminding myself of the Cadets T-shirt: "When we zig, everyone zigs. Zag." That's an admission of constantly pushing the edge of avant guard. I've never seen that from BD. In fact the most dramatic change in BD books was Cool Blue when the jazz wasn't so hard-corp driving thoughout the entire show. But they lost and the following year went right back to their "formula". Zag? Hmm. How to have this discussion without dissing too many people? Ah, the heck with it. To me, what BD brought to the table that was innovative was certainly the aforementioned drum book. Awesome demand, and truly interesting charts. A wonderful featured female mello soloist. (We'll see that again in the future, won't we?) And, to me, the first really disciplined and dedicated approach to truly excellent brass technique. 75 Madison? Well, I don't think they had any of the things that I mentioned for BD. (But hey, I still think Hawthorne won that show.) Some of new and interesting things we started to see from BD's guard around this time (fully realized in the late 70's and early 80's) made them innovative at that time as well. This became the BD formula that has become so, so successful, but I do believe that much of this "program'" was innovative at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I don't think this is what Karen and others are speaking of. BD executes a *relatively* simple show extremely well - better than any others at the moment. But it's hard to visualize BD advancing the activity light years like Cadets or Star in their day. BD is the master of what is right now; who will be the avant guard that will go way out on a limb and change the activity? Cadets? Crown? Some other we've yet to see? But I can't see BD being the innovator that introduces the future to the activity. It's already happened! The day after finals last year, it was noted (within the BD org) that the innovations in the 08 show (critically viewed by some) would in fact find their way into future shows. No one knew how quickly! Crown has adopted several of those techniques this year and no critics. It just takes time to be accepted. Another corps is using the poles, although shorter, same effect. Now, this is not to say that BD is the first to use any of this stuff, but last year they were consistently bashed on DCP for their breaking formation and running at full tilt to new sets. Accused of easy drill....sound familiar? Now that Crown does it, it seems to be OK! This is definitely not a criticism of Crown, they have one of my favorite shows this year, just a reminder that innovation is in the eye of the beholder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 To get back on point, it appears that Crown has the capability to introduce a new...something...to DC because they seem to resemble Cadets in so many regards. I haven't decided if they're simply imitating what's been Cadets success or about to do something brand new. I can tell you that, sitting in the stands next to their staff at the early Dublin show, I was blown away with how staff interacted with the kids. Not once did I hear a derogatory word from staff. They were uplifting, engaging with the kids, helping them see the show from the perspective of the stands, and constantly encouraging them to go one step beyond themselves. These are all the same things I saw in GH 20 years ago when he was corps leader and not YEA CEO, and NOT what I saw from Cadets staff that same day in Dublin. Crown staff seems to know they're on the path to something extraordinary and they relate it to the kids exceptionally well. I'm not saying Crown is THE corps of the future, but the OP was hinting that they could be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadet93 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 It's already happened! The day after finals last year, it was noted (within the BD org) that the innovations in the 08 show (critically viewed by some) would in fact find their way into future shows. No one knew how quickly! Crown has adopted several of those techniques this year and no critics. It just takes time to be accepted. Another corps is using the poles, although shorter, same effect. Now, this is not to say that BD is the first to use any of this stuff, but last year they were consistently bashed on DCP for their breaking formation and running at full tilt to new sets. Accused of easy drill....sound familiar? Now that Crown does it, it seems to be OK! This is definitely not a criticism of Crown, they have one of my favorite shows this year, just a reminder that innovation is in the eye of the beholder. Very Good Point. IMHO, of all years 2008 was one the most innovative BD offering. It was a great show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariaCrown2010 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 It's already happened! The day after finals last year, it was noted (within the BD org) that the innovations in the 08 show (critically viewed by some) would in fact find their way into future shows. No one knew how quickly! Crown has adopted several of those techniques this year and no critics. It just takes time to be accepted. Another corps is using the poles, although shorter, same effect. Now, this is not to say that BD is the first to use any of this stuff, but last year they were consistently bashed on DCP for their breaking formation and running at full tilt to new sets. Accused of easy drill....sound familiar? Now that Crown does it, it seems to be OK! This is definitely not a criticism of Crown, they have one of my favorite shows this year, just a reminder that innovation is in the eye of the beholder. Acually, I am a fan of Crown too, but I have heard more about their drill being hard for them than their drill being easy. Infact many people are saying that their drill is TOO hard for them. The breaking formation thing is a good point, I'm surprised no one has said anything about that, but I haven't heard much talk of Crown's drill being easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstein Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 To get back on point, it appears that Crown has the capability to introduce a new...something...to DC because they seem to resemble Cadets in so many regards. I haven't decided if they're simply imitating what's been Cadets success or about to do something brand new. I think this statement would make the Crown community happy. They seem very, very sensitive to being compared to Star, and I think this description would be far more palatable to them. KS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Excuse Me?? The Promise of Living was played by the Cadets in 1996. Sensemaya was played by the Cavaliers in 1994. Somewhere and Somewhere over the Rainbow have been played by numerous corps over the decades. Therefore, I ask, what music hasn't been played before?!?!? I greatly enjoy the show, but find this statement false. St. Michael's Cathedral by Ottorino Respighi, selections from Il Sogno by Elvis Costello, and Slalom by Carter Pann, plus some original material, which comprise the bulk of their show (around 7:36 or two thirds of an 11:30 show). Like I said, most of the musical material in this show has never been played by a drum corps before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 It's already happened! The day after finals last year, it was noted (within the BD org) that the innovations in the 08 show (critically viewed by some) would in fact find their way into future shows. No one knew how quickly! Crown has adopted several of those techniques this year and no critics. It just takes time to be accepted. Another corps is using the poles, although shorter, same effect. Now, this is not to say that BD is the first to use any of this stuff, but last year they were consistently bashed on DCP for their breaking formation and running at full tilt to new sets. Accused of easy drill....sound familiar? Now that Crown does it, it seems to be OK! This is definitely not a criticism of Crown, they have one of my favorite shows this year, just a reminder that innovation is in the eye of the beholder. Nope, I politely disagree. Modified scatter drill and different guard props is not a watershed moment for DC. Innovation (sorry Lance!) is in the eye of ALL beholders when it's real, not just a few. Witness the constant curvilinear movement, constant playing, no formal drum break, incredible (middle horn) book, breaking the stigma of "Too many notes!" in the drum book, and the dropped jaws (some critical) of the fans. Witness '82, '83 Cadets. Again, who's got the potential for the next Zag? Feels like it might me Crown to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariaCrown2010 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 St. Michael's Cathedral by Ottorino Respighi, selections from Il Sogno by Elvis Costello, and Slalom by Carter Pann, plus some original material, which comprise the bulk of their show (around 7:36 or two thirds of an 11:30 show). Like I said, most of the musical material in this show has never been played by a drum corps before. The Promise of Living from The Tender Land by Aaron Copland Church Windows by Ottorino Respighi Hybrid by Lee Beddis Slalom by Carter Pann Puck from Il Sogno by Elvis Costello Sensemayá by Silvestre Revueltas Somewhere from West Side Story by Leonard Bernstein Over the Rainbow from The Wizard of Oz by Harold Arlen and E.Y. Harburg those are their selections for this year. do you know which ones have never been played before? I'm just wondering. Has someone played Puck before? that piece is amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casaba Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) I wish I understood half the crap I read on here but since i'm a musical idiot I only know what moves me as a fan and a parent. I love what Crown has done since my son started marching. His first year was in.trance.it and to tell the truth I didn't get it but I was hooked on what he was doing, since then I love the last three immensely. I am however able to say what I like with other corps, for example, outside of what Crown has done I absolutely am mesmerized by Cavaliers Machine! pretty much the same for Blue Coats last year. I can't tell you unless it's obvious when a note gets fracked or a tear occurs, etc... but I know what a great show is and there are a few this year, I just hope the judges agree that the grass IS in fact greener in Carolina! Edited August 1, 2009 by Casaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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