Technical sound questions for theater

[Mark G]

Thanxs for the tech input, Soundman G.

It was hard NOT to think about the sound problems all through our broadcast (Union Sq. regal NY); I heard nary a tenor drum all night, except for the occasional big feature, and marching bass drums were virtually just as inaudible. Just judging from that, what percentage of a full hornline sound were we actually getting? We sure got an overpowering level of pit, and I've never heard concert bass drums live shake a stadium like they did in the broadcast. Then upon learning later how spotty the sound was for the live audience, in the stadium itself, I was, frankly, completely nonplussed.

Good thing, then, that SCV came through so utterly stunningly all the same. So good it was a wow no matter what. And, was that Rodney Learned on snare in that Kilties klip?

But anyway, if movie theaters are showing broadcasts of live event pop concerts, dci, and even opera in their theaters these days, don't they at least have a good range of intelligently preset EQ modes to switch between that could at least reasonably well compensate for the different types of sound each might require? And couldn't dci also at least pre-provide specs or a spec recording for this purpose? What kind of "Live Event" are we paying for?

Peace,

Mark

[byline]

That was me.

You'd think that with an event named "Big, Loud and Live" they'd have a clue.

We had to ask again cause they didn't turn it up enough the first time. I shoulda asked them to turn down the bass. You couldn't hear Madison at all due to the synth bass swallowing everything up. After they turned the volume up the second time the sound was much better though. I don't know if the problem with Madison was a theater sound balance issue or the corps' sound balance issue.

I saw Madison live in Buffalo and didn't feel they had a sound balance issue (though they did have some other problems), so I think it has to be your theater.

[Seahawk]

From one sound man to another.....Excellent explanation, Soundman G. And also explained in terms that everyone can understand.

There seems to be a lot of comments about the excessive low end sound. Only one person mentioned what should have been a rather obvious concern. In the world of live sound, and in a recording studio, it's all about mic placement, mic placement, mic placement. The pit sound systems are mixed to project the sound to the top levels of the stadium. If the mics were placed too close to the pit speakers, there would be an overload. It is called the proximity effect. The strongest signal a mic receives is what is closest to it.

(BTW - before the era of multi-layer digital recording and processing, did you know this is exactly how Brian Wilson created the awesome sound of the Beach Boys? The singers would stand a certain distance from the mic according to the vocal balance he was trying to achieve.)

For future events, this might be something Tom Blair and his crew need to pay more attention to.

To Soundman G -- I don't know how the theaters handle the live concert events (eg Miley Cyrus' Best of Both Worlds) as far as processor programming, but if you have any suggestions for Tom Blair that might make future broadcasts better, I am sure he would be open to discussion.

[SoundmanG]

....if movie theaters are showing broadcasts of live event pop concerts, dci, and even opera in their theaters these days, don't they at least have a good range of intelligently preset EQ modes to switch between that could at least reasonably well compensate for the different types of sound each might require? And couldn't dci also at least pre-provide specs or a spec recording for this purpose? What kind of "Live Event" are we paying for?

Peace,

Mark

By and large the multiple EQ mode answer is no. There may be a few theaters that have this capability but generally speaking once the theater EQ's are programmed they are locked down and are not accessible to the projectionist. A live pop concert is frequently a one time special event starring a big name act that has the backing of a major studio. In this case the studio would pay for a custom set up specifically for that event. It's possible (IMO) that if DCI were to offer to foot the bill to re-configure the various sound systems the theaters would be willing to listen (no pun intended).

Edited August 16, 2009 by SoundmanG

[SoundmanG]

There seems to be a lot of comments about the excessive low end sound. Only one person mentioned what should have been a rather obvious concern. In the world of live sound, and in a recording studio, it's all about mic placement, mic placement, mic placement. The pit sound systems are mixed to project the sound to the top levels of the stadium.

I agree Seahawk,

The biggest problem I hear with regards to electronics is that the pit/synth mixer is not in the correct listening position to hear the overall balance between the horns, percussion and pit. You can preset levels all day long at rehearsal but the reality is that the performance stadium will have it's own unique set of acoustic properties. The mix heard on the track is very different from the mix heard up in the stands. This explains the overwhelming bass levels exhibited by some of the corps. What is being heard on the track may sound fine unfortunately that's not where the audience is sitting. Give me a high end sound re-enforcement system, an experienced mixer sitting in the correct listening position who also understands EQ and how to texture the sound properly and I guarantee that most of the problems now associated with synth's and electronics will go away.

For future events, this might be something Tom Blair and his crew need to pay more attention to.

Tom Blair and his crew are pro's. I'm pretty sure they're already aware of the issues being raised by the addition of electronics. Their big problem now (from my perspective anyway) is that any live recording being done by DCI is now at the mercy of the live Pit mix. In the old days you put up a couple of microphones and that was it. Now the live recording not only includes the acoustic instruments but also the "live" mix being done by the corps mixer. The remote truck is essentially recording a live PA system and to some degree is at the mercy of whomever is working sound for the corps.

To Soundman G -- I don't know how the theaters handle the live concert events (eg Miley Cyrus' Best of Both Worlds) as far as processor programming, but if you have any suggestions for Tom Blair that might make future broadcasts better, I am sure he would be open to discussion.

In my experience most live concert theatrical events are backed by a big studio or promoter and as a result will do a custom audio set up specifically for that event. DCI could negotiate this with the theaters but unfortunately Drum Corps may not carry enough clout for this to be successful.

I've had hands on experience working on several IMAX concert films where we've had to deal with the exact same issues faced by DCI/Tom Blair and the theaters. I'm positive Tom and his crew are doing everything they can to make the shows sound as good as possible. However as a Drum Corps veteran and professional sound guy I'm always available to discuss ways to make the Drum Corps sound experience the best it can be.

[bearz]

I've been to a few of these and have to get up each time and tell them to turn it up. What I tell them is that this is NOT an educational show. I tell them to think of this as a movie with Tom Cruise in it, or consider Titanic. I was practically deaf after Titanic. Many theatres seem to think this is an educational thing.