Can we say goodbye to ABSE tonight?

[Fran Haring]

Why? Every been to a jazz concert? Does an flugelhorn standing in front of a band and playing a sweet solo bother you? How about Clark Terry playing his trumpet effortlessly (with awesome tone quality) at a very old age? Micing brass has been around for decades, so why not incorperate it into drum corps?

Been to plenty of jazz concerts. No problem at all with miking anything with a jazz band. No problem at all with the use of amplification of drum corps pit ensembles, use of voice (live or recorded), or the use of synths to produce sounds that can add to a corps' show. Have a problem with introducing microphones into what has been a unique, accoustic sound... the sound of drum corps brass/marching brass.

Like I said...I have never had a problem hearing a marching brass player play a solo. Not sure why they need to be miked.

Fran

[audiodb]

I think the original purpose of electronics on the sidelines was to add tonal shades unavailable without electronics, not to fill the role of breast implants for the brass line. I think most in drum corps like their brass natural, not fake. Myabe some corp will replace all their brass with something like the Morrison Digital Trumpet. Everyone has an 88 note range and no pesky embouchure problems.

Way to go. Now some instructor is going to see this, and probably have them delivered in time for the November camp.

Edited August 10, 2009 by audiodb

[audiodb]

The thing I think bothered me the most hearing the keyboard and amp-enhanced performances is the sudden lack of trust I had in the reality of the performances. Even the very real parts became suspicious -- I found myself wondering at all the worst moments if maybe my ears were being fooled, instead of being honestly blown away.

The thing Drum Corps has always had, that stage bands of any amplified kind don't have, was this sense of absolute bedrock acoustic reality. Every sound you heard had to be produced by means of technique and acoustic ingenuity. Knowing that, a listener experiences a thrill that no amount of electronics can ever replace, and in fact, poisons.

[brucerobertt]

I bet G.R. is rolling over in his grave: an SCV hornline that gets a huge boost from someone on a keyboard and a soundboard operator.

[cybersnyder]

I guess all it will take is a small corps to amp up and sound as huge as a big corps and the rule will be retracted.

[Cardman]

I love this activity. I have embraced the evolution that I have seen since I first saw a drum and bugle corps 36 years ago. But, the line has been crossed.

When I heard brass lines using ABSE (Artificial Brass Sound Enhancement) on Thursday and Friday and even one of my all time favorite corps' 80 person brass line using it on a triple forte push, my heart just sank.

The brass sound has always been real. It must return to being real. May tonight be the last time we ever hear the wall of sound, that has always been synonymous with drum corps, be artificially enhanced.

[Kyle B]

First, let me start off by saying that lately, I've hated Crown for no reason and never liked their recent shows just because I didn't want to.

Well, I've changed my ways and now realize how good they've gotten, and although I still don't like the concept of this year's show, it was a great show.

That being said....I could hear in the theaters on Thursday and on the Webcast on Friday their use of this at the end of their show. It was extremely blatant that as the brass is spreading out further and getting louder, I could almost hear the dial being cranked on the synth as the volume increased and it really ruined a fantastic drum corps moment for me.

[DWEST]

The thing I think bothered me the most hearing the keyboard and amp-enhanced performances is the sudden lack of trust I had in the reality of the performances. Even the very real parts became suspicious -- I found myself wondering at all the worst moments if maybe my ears were being fooled, instead of being honestly blown away.

The thing Drum Corps has always had, that stage bands of any amplified kind don't have, was this sense of absolute bedrock acoustic reality. Every sound you heard had to be produced by means of technique and acoustic ingenuity. Knowing that, a listener experiences a thrill that no amount of electronics can ever replace, and in fact, poisons.

It's not whether synthesized sounds are pleasurable to hear. That isn't the question at all. Nor is it whether they can be used tastefully or not by musicians -- of course they can, as they have been for decades.

The question is -- what is lost, in the setting of this particular musical form?

Every human being on this forum is completely aware (I hope) that synthesized sound is absolutely effortless to produce. I can't imagine a one of us being very impressed with any of it, even as it envelopes us like a rich velvet fog.

Yet, drum corps, as a form of performance, has had until now the golden distinction of being utterly, guaranteed, stunningly natural. Even things like concert-hall ambience and echo, taken for granted by indoor musicians, had to be generated by way of tremendous skill by a drum corps, and you knew it.

This is impressive. Need I point it out? Lose it, and you've lost something far more valuable than you've gained -- the listener's full trust.

What is the point of gaining something easy, produced by one unskilled person pushing a button, when you lose a hundred things special, unique, and hard-earned, produced by great musicians and arrangers?

No matter what the electronics did last night, no matter how big or tasteful or rich or transporting, the only thing I could manage to think was -- "that would have been really neat, if somebody had actually played it".

I don't want to feel that from Drum Corps. That is pure poison.

Yeah, I'm beating a dead horse, but for the music staff that didn't see this.

THIS!!!!

[oldschooldbc]

Synths and amps are doing for drum corps what steriods did for baseball.

To paraphrase the old Memorex commercials: "Is it live? Or is it a synthesizer?"

The people who implemented this change are not stupid. They knew exactly what they were doing - and what would be the result of this change. The result is an artificial sound. Old-timers and experts can tell the difference - but that is perhaps 5% of the people in attendance at the shows. To the other 95% of the listening public, they have no idea what is happening. They just hear a huge fortissimo during the company front at the end of the show - and they think they're hearing the real thing. They are not.

They are like baseball owners in the 1990's, who turned a blind eye to the steriod cheating that was taking place. The baseball owners knew that the players were juicing, and that the resulting records would be phoney. The drum corps directors who approved this rule change are no different. They are fully complicit in what is happening. (I wouldn't go as far as calling it a conspiracy. It may be a conspiracy - but in plain sight, which no on inconveniently points out.)

Why did the board of directors - The Gang of Twelve, as I like to call them - approve this change? They didn't have to. I deeply suspect that it is a reaction to the switch to B-flat horns. The board knew they made a mistake, and that brass sound volume would be permanently hampered by that decision. But by that point, they had all purchased B-flat horns, and couldn't switch back. It would have been cost-prohibitive. What was the solution to this conundrum? Amps and synthesizers. (The expansion of the rosters to 150 may also be a reaction to this original error. But there were plenty of other financial motivations behind that choice.)

Now the question is this: when will we see the equivalent of the Mitchell Report? When will someone actually publicize this, in a forum that embarrasses the Gang of Twelve?

[Liahona]

The thing I think bothered me the most hearing the keyboard and amp-enhanced performances is the sudden lack of trust I had in the reality of the performances. Even the very real parts became suspicious -- I found myself wondering at all the worst moments if maybe my ears were being fooled, instead of being honestly blown away.

The thing Drum Corps has always had, that stage bands of any amplified kind don't have, was this sense of absolute bedrock acoustic reality. Every sound you heard had to be produced by means of technique and acoustic ingenuity. Knowing that, a listener experiences a thrill that no amount of electronics can ever replace, and in fact, poisons.

It's not whether synthesized sounds are pleasurable to hear. That isn't the question at all. Nor is it whether they can be used tastefully or not by musicians -- of course they can, as they have been for decades.

The question is -- what is lost, in the setting of this particular musical form?

Every human being on this forum is completely aware (I hope) that synthesized sound is absolutely effortless to produce. I can't imagine a one of us being very impressed with any of it, even as it envelopes us like a rich velvet fog.

Yet, drum corps, as a form of performance, has had until now the golden distinction of being utterly, guaranteed, stunningly natural. Even things like concert-hall ambience and echo, taken for granted by indoor musicians, had to be generated by way of tremendous skill by a drum corps, and you knew it.

This is impressive. Need I point it out? Lose it, and you've lost something far more valuable than you've gained -- the listener's full trust.

What is the point of gaining something easy, produced by one unskilled person pushing a button, when you lose a hundred things special, unique, and hard-earned, produced by great musicians and arrangers?

No matter what the electronics did last night, no matter how big or tasteful or rich or transporting, the only thing I could manage to think was -- "that would have been really neat, if somebody had actually played it".

I don't want to feel that from Drum Corps. That is pure poison.

This is EXACTLY what I have been feeling....and so eloquently said I might add...