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You certainly cannot rely on location or home field advantage to guarantee crowd support. Allentown in 2007 and 2008 politely applauded the hometown Cadets. You get standing O's because you program your show to elicit that reaction from the audience. BD's program simply failed to elicit that reaction.

IIRC I remember a standing O from Cadets at Hershey in 07 after their opening hit...I know I stood and applauded. It was great.

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They marched diagonally through the block while the guard was also spinning while on the chairs. Not sure what tempo you consider quick though, but hey, we all see what we want to see, right?

He also states that BD had no effect on this year's show designs. But Phantom Regiment won last year. And their final scene with the replacement of the DM on the podium led directly to 2 Finalist Corps this year utlilizing guards to go up onto the podium during portions of the show with the DM.

The Blue Devils will likewise have an impact next year with other finalist Corps Visual Show Designers despite his predictions that they will not. It would be sheer folly for Corps like the Cadets to continue with the high risk ( low reward ) high velocity drills. It was inevitable in my opinion that eventually such high velocity drills would led to a fallen marcher. It's a shame that it happened to the Cadets at Finals. I have no doubt that the BD's win will have other Corps rethink their visual show design regarding drill and use of props next season. Otherwise, to repeat the same type of high velocity drill, but expect different results doesn't seem the most intelligent and wise thing to do. Thus, it is reasonable to assume that several Corps will slow down their high velocity drill approach and adopt a vertical visual with the use of props similar to the creative and innovative use of auxiliary props brilliantly utilized by the Blue Devils this year. If the OP thinks the Blue Devils will have no such influence in visual design for next season, then he is certainly entitled to that opinion. We'll just have to see if the other Corps next year arn't influenced in their visuals by this year's winner. Historically, they almost always have, including as we said, last year's winner having an impact on this year's visual shows.

Edited by BRASSO
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I'm not going to lean on my age...it's not a factor for me. But suffice to say that I will not exploit your youth and inexperience for the sake of this debate! :shutup: You are delusional if you think that Crown didn't used parts of BD's 2008 show...Oh, by the way, one of BD's former vis techs from last year is with Crown this year...Hello, McFly! :lol: Also, try looking at the opener among the chairs, there's a manuever called "the razor" diagonal at a break neck speed. You and many others (still marching) couldn't do that in your dreams (also, there's no margin of error, zero!) Although it's just about impossible to see on the video, have someone who knows about visual explain BD's show to you because your endless rambling about the chairs shows you are totally uninformed and blind with prejudice. Again, BD's show was off the charts difficult and will be used for some time by other designers, period! Book it! No manner of your re-living those Wascally Judges numbers can change the facts. Get over it. BD is the best Drum Corps in DCI, and not by .025!!!! Finally, I wasn't slamming the Cadets (I don't do to any corps what you feel free to do the Devs), I mearly said that they were one demensional, they presented a show of fast paced formations that seemed to never end. It was almost an exercise! But eye popping kaleidoscopic drill does not a winner make, not any more! Look for the Cadets to learn from this year! Big Time! And I'm certain it will break your heart! :lol: Now take a seat old fella! :lol:

I seem to be blind....to give you the benefit of the doubt, I just watched the Allentown video, and perhaps you didn't understand me....there are no hornline full diagonal passthrough of the chairs....at any tempo....if I am wrong, give me the minute mark and I will re-look.....they do a few small partial diagonals/weaves and direction changes (perhaps the razor you refer too), which I grant are harder than they look....certainly harder than the horizontal passthroughs, and they are done well, but nowhere close to breakneck speed......frankly, the playing demand on the drumline while on the move is more than the brass, and that showed up.....what else jumped out at me is the brass line does not have any fast tonguing demands in the show until the 11 minute mark, and they are parked.....I will say it was good when they finally did some....also, when there is a bit of velocity demand in the drill, either it is percussion only, or just a few brass players, or long tones/easier articulations in the brass...also, highly noticeable, was that the musical product did not connect with the audience at all, due to lack of expression/contrast and choppiness of arrangements, and the fact that the pit carried too much of the book....which they were not tagged for at all score-wise......a barely forced and delayed standing O at the end only.....oh, I forgot about the "eastern crowd conspiracy"....if you believe that, you may wish, in contrast, to check out the "eastern" response to the Vanguard's ending........"off the charts difficult"??? I would certainly say not from a brass standpoint, nor was the quality of sound.........for me, percussion and guard showed the most demand in the BD show....well, at any rate, enjoy watching the videos and DVD's of "your state of the art" show.........yes, maybe if the Cadets, Crown, and Santa Clara "study" this show and "learn" from it, they will learn to win over the crowd at the same massive level that the Devs did......(much sarcasm)....it's a shame that crowd didn't "get it"....

GB

GB

GB

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I seem to be blind....to give you the benefit of the doubt, I just watched the Allentown video, and perhaps you didn't understand me....there are no hornline full diagonal passthrough of the chairs....at any tempo....if I am wrong, give me the minute mark and I will re-look.....they do a few small partial diagonals/weaves and direction changes (perhaps the razor you refer too), which I grant are harder than they look....certainly harder than the horizontal passthroughs, and they are done well, but nowhere close to breakneck speed......frankly, the playing demand on the drumline while on the move is more than the brass, and that showed up.....what else jumped out at me is the brass line does not have any fast tonguing demands in the show until the 11 minute mark, and they are parked.....I will say it was good when they finally did some....also, when there is a bit of velocity demand in the drill, either it is percussion only, or just a few brass players, or long tones/easier articulations in the brass...also, highly noticeable, was that the musical product did not connect with the audience at all, due to lack of expression/contrast and choppiness of arrangements, and the fact that the pit carried too much of the book....which they were not tagged for at all score-wise......a barely forced and delayed standing O at the end only.....oh, I forgot about the "eastern crowd conspiracy"....if you believe that, you may wish, in contrast, to check out the "eastern" response to the Vanguard's ending........"off the charts difficult"??? I would certainly say not from a brass standpoint, nor was the quality of sound.........for me, percussion and guard showed the most demand in the BD show....well, at any rate, enjoy watching the videos and DVD's of "your state of the art" show.........yes, maybe if the Cadets, Crown, and Santa Clara "study" this show and "learn" from it, they will learn to win over the crowd at the same massive level that the Devs did......(much sarcasm)....it's a shame that crowd didn't "get it"....

GB

GB

GB

I tend to wonder whether the many people who complain that BD's book was too choppy this year in particular have actually heard the original "Piano Variations." (I'm assuming they don't "Happy Days" was too choppy; that's straightforward park and blow at its best). This piece is a clear example of BD using a composition that's spare in nature to serve their musical needs rather than taking a full-bodied piece and chopping it to shreds. I thought it was very true to the original and very well-done. (And let's not act like the Cadets didn't have their choppiness this year. How many snippets of "America" can you fit into a WSS show? And how many WSS songs can you cram into a finale? "Choppiness" in and of itself doesn't seem to be the real problem, here.)

Also, BD designs its shows to the sheets? -- I'm confused that people keep saying this as if the top 6 corps weren't all vying for the win and trying to rack up the points. As if Crown hasn't been using its steam this decade to keep pushing its design envelope (and get credit for it from the judges), as if the Cadets throw in their breakneck drill WITHOUT consideration for the fact that the judges appreciate this level of demand.

None of these shows is designed in a vacuum. That's a fact. So can we move on, please?

I really dug Cadets and SCV this year and am glad that they were so enjoyed by fans; this seems really to have been a priority for these corps this year (and most years). On the other hand? West Side Story is the most recognizable musical on earth with some of the most moving music to have been written this century. Of COURSE a great performance of it is going to evoke strong emotional response -- and of COURSE drum corps fans are going to love a show that has such a strong precedent in drum corps and for the Cadets -- and for BD even (during one of their more emotionally resonant shows of the last 2 decades, I'll add)! Same with SCV; their program wasn't exactly a display of stuff we hadn't heard and loved before. To some degree, aren't we predisposed to like it? And aren't designers fully aware of this fact when they're brainstorming the music for a show?

This isn't to strip anyone of the credit they're due. But it doesn't really make sense to say BD's show didn't make fans react the same way. Of course it didn't. "Piano Variations" is not "Tonight" or "I Have a Love," and even "Happy Days" doesn't have quite the same history in DCI (or BOA, for that matter) as selections from WSS. This is a risk corps take when they venture out into the activity's musical unknowns. How much of the overall fan reaction can be attributed to context and precedent and not only a show's design?

Edited by saxfreq1128
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:shutup: 100% agree with your review and your take on placements. Overall, I dont know what message the judging community is sending but it is not one that I want the 2nd place and below corps to listen to........really, really dont.

And your comment about BD's color guard being great. Yes, they are clean. But being surrounded by my friends who marched and taught color guard for many years in DCI and WGI, including myself, their demand was similarly low compared to the other top corps. I was left as I was with the corp.....just wanting more.......

And before someone else "flames on" about all the BD comments from the peanut gallery at DCP, I would ask when else in history have you heard these arguments when BD won. Some people may not have particularly cared for them, but always respected what they were doing. This year is different and was evidence by the booing at the score, which I did participate in BTW. I really HOPE that BD comes out next year and rips our faces off and tears down the house like these used to. Really do. I also hope that all other corps stays true to this years programming......so great all the way down the line. Congrats to everyone!

every year that BD wins the comments on DCP are pretty hateful regarding their show. I can remember 96, 97, 2003 (not as bad) and 2007 (big time negativity) all had mostly negative comments on the forums. I think it is unfortunate that people love to hate BD, but that is what happens when you are a proven winner. I understand that people want their favorite to win, or in many cases anyone but BD. I know that most members of BD (my daughter marched BD) don't take it personally and actually find it amusing that is pisses people off when they win.

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[CROWN will be my champions this year

How can you say this when you have no idea what their concept will be? What if they fall like phantom did this year. Your comments are laughable

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You certainly cannot rely on location or home field advantage to guarantee crowd support. Allentown in 2007 and 2008 politely applauded the hometown Cadets. You get standing O's because you program your show to elicit that reaction from the audience. BD's program simply failed to elicit that reaction.

Not true. I have been to many finals and BD gets much more love the closer west the contest. I don't believe BD gets less crowd support because their shows are less entertaining. I honestly believe that they get less support because many drum corps fans are sick and tired of them winning. I have heard so many people say I don't care who wins as long as it is not BD.

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I am 51 years old. I can still play sitting in a chair, posing on a chair, standing on a chair, leaning on a chair, and can march through an interval of straight line chairs at a moderate tempo. (I noticed that Devs did not attempt to march through them at a diagonal, or at a quick tempo, which perhaps WOULD have been at another level) I could not march the end of Cadets show at all anymore. Enough said. And if the above items I mentioned regarding the chairs are at "another level" as you have proclaimed, you have the right to your opinion, as do the judges who called the show. And since you obviously felt the Devs show was "so dominant", let me point out that even with the 99 score, BD did not win brass, ensemble, or overall music. It is also very interesting to point out that they won music effect by both judges in finals, including one who gave a perfect 20, yet were 2nd and 3rd respectively in semifinals. They were also 2nd by one music effect judge in quarters, and 3rd in brass. You talk about Crown "copying" Blue Devils??? Actually, they were compared far more to Star of Indiana, where there were striking similarities at times, but that was probably way before your time. So, fast kaleidoscopic drill isn't selling anymore......I guess the whole crowd on their feet for an extended time during the Cadets ending was just a mirage in my mind that didn't really happen. I didn't see any influence on another corps whatsoever by BD from last year to this year. I guess we are all behind the times as you suggest, and this will be a show of high influence on the future.....NOT!!!!!

GB

The cadets could not even march the end of their show. It was a dirty mess.

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I seem to be blind....to give you the benefit of the doubt, I just watched the Allentown video, and perhaps you didn't understand me....there are no hornline full diagonal passthrough of the chairs....at any tempo....if I am wrong, give me the minute mark and I will re-look.....they do a few small partial diagonals/weaves and direction changes (perhaps the razor you refer too), which I grant are harder than they look....certainly harder than the horizontal passthroughs, and they are done well, but nowhere close to breakneck speed......frankly, the playing demand on the drumline while on the move is more than the brass, and that showed up.....what else jumped out at me is the brass line does not have any fast tonguing demands in the show until the 11 minute mark, and they are parked.....I will say it was good when they finally did some....also, when there is a bit of velocity demand in the drill, either it is percussion only, or just a few brass players, or long tones/easier articulations in the brass...also, highly noticeable, was that the musical product did not connect with the audience at all, due to lack of expression/contrast and choppiness of arrangements, and the fact that the pit carried too much of the book....which they were not tagged for at all score-wise......a barely forced and delayed standing O at the end only.....oh, I forgot about the "eastern crowd conspiracy"....if you believe that, you may wish, in contrast, to check out the "eastern" response to the Vanguard's ending........"off the charts difficult"??? I would certainly say not from a brass standpoint, nor was the quality of sound.........for me, percussion and guard showed the most demand in the BD show....well, at any rate, enjoy watching the videos and DVD's of "your state of the art" show.........yes, maybe if the Cadets, Crown, and Santa Clara "study" this show and "learn" from it, they will learn to win over the crowd at the same massive level that the Devs did......(much sarcasm)....it's a shame that crowd didn't "get it"....

GB

GB

GB

Again................the highly partisan Indy crowd didn't WANT to get it! Bring it back to the Rose Bowl and you'll see THE CROWD get it! It was nothing more than "some" disgruntled losers that have no class! Something like that would never happen in California. NEVER! You're not changing my mind or the Blue Devils on this, they completely understand the lay of the land in Indy and they've seen 2 years in a row in the mid-west finals..a classless, highly homer crowd be highly homer and classless! They expect it as long as they win, and that dynamic ain't changing any time soon!

I noticed you didn't say anything about BD being the only corps to applaud Crown for the Ott Award.....further demonstation of the lack of poise and sportsmenship in that dome!

Also when you try to use SCV as an example, again....(you're not listening! :shutup: ) Vanguard was not a repeat winner and a threat to Crown or Cadets (at least at finals). So people could be free to love them (as we all did!).

Rationalize all you want...here's the fact: If not for .025 last year, BD would have 3 peated in one of the most competitve fields in some time! Period! (you may now return to your putting pins in your BD voodoo doll!)

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Wow...a BD fan calling everyone else disgruntled losers.

Yup, just checking.

No one stood up because the show didn't warrant it. Nuff said.

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