Summation of Recent Activities

[Baeritone]

I really think you overrate the importance of this place....for the good and bad.

Except I'm not basing these opinions solely on what I see here.

[Jeff Ream]

Hee! How so? Enthrall me with your acumen.....

you want people involved in a passionate activity to put those passions on a leash and use common sense, decorum and civility.

you rode the busses man...you know that aint gonna happen

and besides, this isnt destroying drum corps no matter what some spin doctors say. those making the decisions that often dont involve listening to the paying customers have done far more damage than people #####ing on DCP

[Baeritone]

you want people involved in a passionate activity to put those passions on a leash and use common sense, decorum and civility.

you rode the busses man...you know that aint gonna happen

and besides, this isnt destroying drum corps no matter what some spin doctors say. those making the decisions that often dont involve listening to the paying customers have done far more damage than people #####ing on DCP

And indeed, this isn't solely based on DCP, but also on what I hear in the stands and from people I know personally. And I'm not saying we can't have passion; I'm saying that there's such a thing as being gracious in defeat. There's such a thing as accepting the fact that things will always change, and some of those changes will actually be for the better. There's also such a thing as realizing that there was a reason why things were done a certain way in the past.

Don't think drum corps is dying? Look at the stands, my friend, for DCA and DCI alike. I'm not speaking solely of finals, but of shows in general. I've seen crowds at all types of shows where the marching members in a single corps outnumbered the audience.

There's a happy medium somewhere between entertainment and the judging sheets. People think we haven't found it because it can't be found. I think we haven't found it because everyone is so ###### sure he's right that he won't even consider another viewpoint, and we end up in deadlock about how to do it. :-/

[Wadep66]

8. Almost everyone here thinks almost everyone else here is an idiot.

Wrong. There are strong disagreements and some very immature people insult others and say they don't know what they're talking about, but the majority of folks on here recognize an opinion is just that.

[Jeff Ream]

And indeed, this isn't solely based on DCP, but also on what I hear in the stands and from people I know personally. And I'm not saying we can't have passion; I'm saying that there's such a thing as being gracious in defeat. There's such a thing as accepting the fact that things will always change, and some of those changes will actually be for the better. There's also such a thing as realizing that there was a reason why things were done a certain way in the past.

Don't think drum corps is dying? Look at the stands, my friend, for DCA and DCI alike. I'm not speaking solely of finals, but of shows in general. I've seen crowds at all types of shows where the marching members in a single corps outnumbered the audience.

There's a happy medium somewhere between entertainment and the judging sheets. People think we haven't found it because it can't be found. I think we haven't found it because everyone is so ###### sure he's right that he won't even consider another viewpoint, and we end up in deadlock about how to do it. :-/

so we're Congress.

and junior drum corps may be shrinking, but it isnt dead yet. and all age drum corps is experiencing growth that is mind boggling over the last 10 year.

and no matter what we say on here or in the stands, the decisions made that turn people off and hurt the activity are made by those with the power

[Baeritone]

Wrong. There are strong disagreements and some very immature people insult others and say they don't know what they're talking about, but the majority of folks on here recognize an opinion is just that.

Really?

I've seen people here (and this is one of the few points I made that was intended only to apply to DCP) who are real-life friends of mine call people much worse than idiot just out of disagreement. This forum often makes me tired, because people get pointlessly angry and say things they would never say to someone in person. (Of course, the same can be said of almost any internet forum, but that's as may be. )

[Cardman]

So I've conned through this melange of responses, here's what I gather is being said. Keep in mind that summarizing this does not mean that I agree:

1. Blue Devils won last night; most people agree that they should have done according to the judging sheets, and there is a great schism in our community of fans as to whether or not that ACTUALLY should have according to the mythical GE scoring system contrasted with audience response.

2. Virtually everyone agrees that BD executed their show design flawlessly.

3. The majority of opinions on this board, which may or may not represent a clear cross-section of the drum corps audience (there's no way to quantify it), is that the reason BD's execution was flawless was because their show was easier than the rest of the top 5 corps shows, quite aside from the mythical GE score.

4. There are few people loudly proclaiming that BD is the end-all be-all of drum corps, and those few are now or have been primarily involved with BD personally, and as such, are obviously biased.

5. There will always be people who hate the winner, and in this case those people may or may not have a regional bias.

6. It would be possible for BD to do a crowd-pleasing show as they did in the 80's and still win. (Editorial comment: SCV showed us how that can be done in 1999. When that show concept was announced people thought it would be weird and inaccessible; instead, it was a show that was so good that it made me get over my long-standing bias against SCV.)

7. There is no place for what BD is doing in drum corps. (Editorial note: I STRONGLY disagree with this one, and of all the consensus points herein, I consider this one the most dangerous.)

8. Almost everyone here thinks almost everyone else here is an idiot.

Is this a fair assessment of the state of things here? Ok. Here's what I have to say about this, on a personal level:

STOP IT.

Like most forums, this one is a concentrated microcosm of the larger community it represents. What this means is that, though the obvious loathing of our fellow fans is more obvious here, it is likely to exist just as much, but subtler and more diffusely, in the real world.

Now, if you were a new fan, and all you got from was a general miasma of "I'm right, you're wrong" from the general "veteran" audience....would it make you want to keep going to shows, or god forbid, get involved yourself?

We have to stop this self-cannibalization in which we're engaged. We are not a large enough community anymore to survive it. Our activity is dying, because the few people who are able to see past the old-fashioned 8-5 style and see what corps has become are turned off by our pointless and endless negativity.

STOP IT.

STOP worrying so much about judging and winning. Judges do not pay to keep the activity going. Start worrying about how we're going to get new people with new ideas involved. And STOP, for the love of all that's holy, pretending that weird automatically means good just because it's new. You can be weird, and outre`, and surreal even....and still appeal to an audience, and still win, if that's what matters to you. Scores don't keep this thing going, even with the prize money; fans do.

It's time to quit destroying drum corps with the blind insistence that you yourself are always right. It's time to start using this beautifully athletic AND artistic medium as something on which everyone might not always agree, but as something which anyone can get behind.

Yes, you are an idiot.

[ajwdad]

Some points seem valid, others don't. And I don't see much consensus.

On BD, if they win, there always will be detractors. West Coast, Easy show (what a crock), etc... BD fans live with it.

On the board, I would rather see a passionate argument than a quiet civilized debate. The "idiots" here, myself included, are passionate, involved and opinionated. I think that is good. Consider the following situation:

1) You visit an old folks home. Some are playing cards, some are talking to their brokers, some are watching TV. it is quiet, calm, and ordered.

2) You visit a kindergarten class. Some kids are crying, some are fighting, some are wetting their pants, and it is chaos.

You have a million dollars to invest. Which group do you invest in for the long term?

As much as I disagree with a lot of points here, I understand that the person on the other side is passionate, opinionated, and involved. Otherwise, who cares what they think?

[Baeritone]

Some points seem valid, others don't. And I don't see much consensus.

On BD, if they win, there always will be detractors. West Coast, Easy show (what a crock), etc... BD fans live with it.

On the board, I would rather see a passionate argument than a quiet civilized debate. The "idiots" here, myself included, are passionate, involved and opinionated. I think that is good. Consider the following situation:

1) You visit an old folks home. Some are playing cards, some are talking to their brokers, some are watching TV. it is quiet, calm, and ordered.

2) You visit a kindergarten class. Some kids are crying, some are fighting, some are wetting their pants, and it is chaos.

You have a million dollars to invest. Which group do you invest in for the long term?

As much as I disagree with a lot of points here, I understand that the person on the other side is passionate, opinionated, and involved. Otherwise, who cares what they think?

I don't know that what you've chosen is a fair comparison. And being passionate is fine - being disrespectful, as many appear to be, is not, in my book.

You see, we are NOT Kindergartners. We should be adults; the passion should be on the field and in the stands. Being passionate is one place and being measured and thoughtful in another....these are not mutually exclusive states.

Hell, even be passionate in arguing here, but I would rather see people back up their opinions with something more thoughtful than "Oh yeah? Well, my corps can beat up your corps!" I marched a corps where violence was threatened against members and staff of another corps, and sometimes even between sections of the corps itself. Did passion serve us well in that case? No, because instead of respecting each other and leaving our passion on the field, we ate each other alive, and the marching corps is essentially dead.

Don't think the same thing can't happen to drum corps in general.

[jmc5682]

I also loved BD's show. If my daughter who marched in BD can ignore the ignorant coments regarding BD's show and their supposed lack of difficulty I would hope that BD's DCP fans could do the same.

It would be interesting to see the geographical make-up of DCP members. Perhaps there are more members in the Midwest and east than in the west.