cwillpayne Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 I hesitate to say which corps was stronger because I am a huge fan of all 3, have donated money to all 3, and respect the design and ambition created in all 3 organizations' 2009 shows. I sternly do not believe that the Troopers identity is what pushed them into finals. Simply not true. A small amount of hype? Sure, why not. For 23 long years, the Troopers identity wasn't helping them into Finals, or even semi-finals for that matter. In fact, I would assert that up until even last year the Troopers identity is what was HURTING them. It didn't help them when the corps was in the lowest of the rankings. It didn't help them beat East Coast Jazz, or Les Etoiles, or NIGHT EXPRESS, or the 13 member horn-line Mandarins (which was a wild corps--love that corps), or SCV Cadets, or all these other Div 2 and 3 corps that graduated into div 1 quarterfinals back in the day. DFL folks. Dead Freakin Last is what they placed for a number of years. How did identity help them then? That being said, I am SO glad I am not a judge. I would have a tough time deciding who was a finalist and who wasn't. For example, in my mind, I have had the Crossmen in Finals every year this decade!! We as fans have our own opportunity to put corps in the rankings we feel they should be and we will chat about it on DCP for years to come but it is kind of hard to argue with the green shirts who all bring an independent view for each corps in each caption that is being judged that night. (Which is why I still wonder why Crown wasn't over BD this year either! :devil: But that is a different discussion...). I love being a fan, a spectator, and an admirer of all the kids that are performing on the field. There is no doubt that the activity continues to get more and more competitive and I absolutely love it!! Let's celebrate the success of all who competed and performed. I think it is about time we, including myself, get over the fact that things didn't happen the way we individually wanted them to (notice the Crown comment above). And on that note, I hate that tuba lines can't be trusted anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 I hesitate to say which corps was stronger because I am a huge fan of all 3, have donated money to all 3, and respect the design and ambition created in all 3 organizations' 2009 shows. I sternly do not believe that the Troopers identity is what pushed them into finals. Simply not true. A small amount of hype? Sure, why not. For 23 long years, the Troopers identity wasn't helping them into Finals, or even semi-finals for that matter. In fact, I would assert that up until even last year the Troopers identity is what was HURTING them. It didn't help them when the corps was in the lowest of the rankings. It didn't help them beat East Coast Jazz, or Les Etoiles, or NIGHT EXPRESS, or the 13 member horn-line Mandarins (which was a wild corps--love that corps), or SCV Cadets, or all these other Div 2 and 3 corps that graduated into div 1 quarterfinals back in the day. DFL folks. Dead Freakin Last is what they placed for a number of years. How did identity help them then? That being said, I am SO glad I am not a judge. I would have a tough time deciding who was a finalist and who wasn't. For example, in my mind, I have had the Crossmen in Finals every year this decade!! We as fans have our own opportunity to put corps in the rankings we feel they should be and we will chat about it on DCP for years to come but it is kind of hard to argue with the green shirts who all bring an independent view for each corps in each caption that is being judged that night. (Which is why I still wonder why Crown wasn't over BD this year either! :devil: But that is a different discussion...). I love being a fan, a spectator, and an admirer of all the kids that are performing on the field. There is no doubt that the activity continues to get more and more competitive and I absolutely love it!! Let's celebrate the success of all who competed and performed. I think it is about time we, including myself, get over the fact that things didn't happen the way we individually wanted them to (notice the Crown comment above). And on that note, I hate that tuba lines can't be trusted anymore. Nice post. I agree with all of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmroth1 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 How could it not? Your daughter marched the colts. Of course it clouded your judgement.... it would mine!Not sure how you didn't. Western Side Story was their show and their music was from Bernstein's West Side Story and various western music (like Spaghetti Western by Michael Daugherty and Dances with Wolves) Now this is actually why I choose to respond, because there were obvious sour grapes in some of your previous posts. I remember you flipping out a few weeks about how Colts were getting screwed and how their scores dropped and nobody else's did (which happens all the time BTW.... for example: troopers score dropped every night in Indy). You were definitely bitter then and crying foul quite openly and loudly. All the sudden things have changed? 1) It's very easy for me not to let it cloud my judgement. I have been watching and rating corps since before she was an impulse. Trust me, In actuality I can have a tendency to be more critical about her performance or any group she participates with than I should be. 2) Well, all I can say is I was scared I was the only slow one out there until I heard John Madden say the same thing on the quarterfinals telecast. Then at least I didn't feel alone and slow . 3) Yes, my thread I put out appartantly came across as being sour and since that really wasn't my intention I shut down the thread. Nothing has changed with my opinions. When I say congratulations to the Troopers it is sincere regardless of my opinion about their ranking. This thread is about those opinions and I am entitled to mine just like you are entitled to yours and I do respect your opinion even if I don't agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Maybe the judges were watching a different how than I was. To me, there was a clear winner, and it wasn't what was on those judges' sheets. There was a clear winner to me, too, and it was *exactly* who was on the judges sheets. Troop outplayed the Colts, and it showed in the brass and drum scores. They simply had more control of their sound and better technique. Their show design was stronger as well. Colts did a great job, but Troop was one up on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cop Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 (edited) I only got to see the Quarters in the theater.... with that Troopers were the strongest of their tier. Keep it rolling Troop,,, (shout out for Scouts Brass!) Edited August 15, 2009 by Cop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estancia93 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 I highly doubt Troopers identity had anything to do with it seeing as they've been at the bottom of the barrell for so many years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman Marcher Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 I would have picked Colts, honestly--their biggest weakness was ensemble sound, which Troopers had in spades this year, but I felt the strength of the Colts color guard and show design would have carried them over Troop. That said, seeing Troop enter the field and the standing ovation they received made me feel a lot better that Troopers made finals and Colts didn't. Even if my choice for 12th didn't win they couldn't have been beaten by a better corps. Good luck to both Colts and Troopers in 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kansan Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 In my opinion, Academy really didn't have a chance to make top 12 because they had the same show as the Cavaliers. (how did that happen?) I thought the Colts seemed more powerful with their performance. I guess power isn't eerything. The Troopers had an interesting show that they could have done a little more with but I think it was enjoyable enough from a fan perspective to make 12th. They will be getting better as they retain members and attract older members with more experience. I'm kinda of thinking 12th was a gift for Madison Scouts in '08 and it was maybe a gift to Troopers this year. Being 12th breaths life into a program. We have some big names from the past that are below 12th which makes things very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 In my opinion, Academy really didn't have a chance to make top 12 because they had the same show as the Cavaliers. (how did that happen?)I thought the Colts seemed more powerful with their performance. I guess power isn't everything. The Troopers had an interesting show that they could have done a little more with but I think it was enjoyable enough from a fan perspective to make 12th. They will be getting better as they retain members and attract older members with more experience. I'm kinda of thinking 12th was a gift for Madison Scouts in '08 and it was maybe a gift to Troopers this year. Being 12th breaths life into a program. We have some big names from the past that are below 12th which makes things very interesting. No of course it isn't. If that were the case Madison would have been 5th this year.... they had A LOT of power. As far as gifts go. Madison earned 12th in 08 and Troopers earned 12th in 09. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellowbugle Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Haven't been on DCP in what seems like ages, I just wanted to chime in on my opinion. Even though I love the Colts, I thought Troop held their ground this summer. They came out with a solid show design that could be tweaked and keep their top twelve status. I do partially agree that the Colts design team needs to get their heads out of the 70's-80's type design and create a better show. I was actually excited when I heard what Colts were doing until I saw the show, flag fish and all. Troop did the right thing by using people that had experience in a top 8 corps (crown) to push their members further than before. I honestly believe that if Colts were to do the same thing next year (new design team (with lots of top 8 experience) and a new drill writer) then they could push for 10th place again. They get the talent every year. I know of 4 Colts members from 08 moving to Crown for 09, along with a many others going to Phantom, Cavies, and Cadets. When push comes to shove, its all about detailed show design. Colts had a fun show that had design flaws. Troop had a fun show but it was deigned better. No cloud of judgement over me, since my heart lies with Colts but that's how I see it after watching their shows a few more times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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