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Forget Woodwinds – Beware of WGI


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Meh.

It's kind of understood that WGI and BOA are where the ideas are now, and DCI now follows along so it can achieve the same kind of scholastic relevance . . .that way it can ride the other activities coat tails.........

I find this a very interesting comment and a different perspective of what is happening to drum corps. It is actually an inversion of what used to be.

High school bands used to look up to and try to emulate what the corps were doing. Now the corps are more and more moving towards what the top high school programs are doing. This is evidenced by statements made when rules proposals are being done. I remember reading about the synth rule and how it was a smart move because it would open up corps to more students that dont play a horn or other percussion instrument. I have also read that DCi corps need to be more like what the current high schoolers are used to doing/seeing to be able to keep DCi alive with new fans.

It used to be like when I remember seeing drum and bugle corps for the first time. Saying to myself that is so much better than what we do at school. I want to be a part of that because it is different and way cooler than what I got to do in high school. Now the thought seems to be it needs to be more simillar to attract people. I suppose that is because schools have adopted the way corps are so much, and have gotten drastically better, that determining the difference is harder and they need to keep making it closer. At one time, it was very easy to see the difference because the design concepts were different. Now the design line between marching bands and d&b corps is very blurred and, to some extent, doesn't exist.

I will say I definately prefer the WGI guard style to the old school style. However, I don't want to see DCi turn into color guard accompanied by horns and battery. The guard should always add to the visual performance, but should not be the primary focus for the entire show.

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Well, I've taken this comment on before, and I'll take it on again. Yes, it can be compared. That's because the type of demand has changed over the years . . . but once guards started spinning and throwing their equipment, it was always complex, at least commensurate with what the judging sheets demanded at the time.

There is a huge level of demand in, for example, throwing a heavy (especially compared with today's standards) rifle in a quad, nailing the rotations, body positions, position of equipment in the air, keeping the feet where they're supposed to be without stepping out of position (which I see waaay too much of nowadays) and not dropping. All of which guards were doing constantly back in the '70s because they had to. Anything less got them deductions (tics) from the judges. And they were doing this all day long, day in and day out, with rifle lines that were generally rifle lines for an entire show, not a segment or segments.

So guards then were trained in technique, trained to nail all the little stuff, trained to do all of this while marching, sometimes even during high knee lift (which they also had to execute uniformly and correctly, lest they be ticked), and each individual was expected to execute all of these details without ticking. That contains its own inherent demand, and that level of demand is something that I remain unconvinced that guards of today could do as well simply because they're not trained in that way, the sheets don't demand that they perform a tickless show, so neither the performers nor the judges expect that. As with guards then, they are trained, but in a different way, and many perform what they are trained to do exceptionally well. But to claim that ability and complexity cannot be compared ignores the essence of what guards of yesteryear did.

Please let me say, I in no way meant to make less of what guards were doing in past, my pupose was to just stress that things are changing. If what I said came across as a "slam" of guards of yesteryear, I apologize, was not my intent.

EDIT .. I would say in regards to the comment that today's guards are not trained for technique. I've been to many a practice that would question that statement.

Edited by Guard-Dad
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Please let me say, I in no way meant to make less of what guards were doing in past, my pupose was to just stress that things are changing. If what I said came across as a "slam" of guards of yesteryear, I apologize, was not my intent.

EDIT .. I would say in regards to the comment that today's guards are not trained for technique. I've been to many a practice that would question that statement.

Let me put it differently. You probably view things in context with Blue Devils, and to that extent, I agree with you. They are definitely trained in technique across the board. However, there are many guards who are not, and it shows. There are guards who are better in dance technique, not so hot on equipment, and vice versa, and some not particularly proficient in any of it. They're just trying to emulate what the higher-ups do, but haven't been trained in the technique of how to do it. In fact, I spent some time with a late '90s guard where that was exactly the case (which is why I didn't stay around very long; nice book, but not much confidence among the individuals because the work and movement weren't being broken down so that everyone knew what we were supposed to be doing at all times). I think that's the biggest difference between then and now. Because the sheets demanded it, guards were pretty much uniformly trained in technique. Otherwise, we'd be ticked. That doesn't mean, of course, that every single guard was trained uniformly, but I think there was a lot more focus on it then than now. And there were a whole lot more corps back then, each with guards who, for the most part, were trained in this way.

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As someone that marched in the seventies, I have to say the one thing that I find most improved, in drum corps, is the color guard. They have fewer constraints than they had in my day. There is much more dance and less military influence. I always find myself wondering when they are going to get rid of the rifles and sabers. I like seeing spinning rifles, but what do the rifles have to do with anything? I don’t like the massive pits that drum corps have. I think it diminishes the power of the horn line. The amplification has made it worse.

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Let me put it differently. You probably view things in context with Blue Devils, and to that extent, I agree with you. They are definitely trained in technique across the board. However, there are many guards who are not, and it shows. There are guards who are better in dance technique, not so hot on equipment, and vice versa, and some not particularly proficient in any of it. They're just trying to emulate what the higher-ups do, but haven't been trained in the technique of how to do it. In fact, I spent some time with a late '90s guard where that was exactly the case (which is why I didn't stay around very long; nice book, but not much confidence among the individuals because the work and movement weren't being broken down so that everyone knew what we were supposed to be doing at all times). I think that's the biggest difference between then and now. Because the sheets demanded it, guards were pretty much uniformly trained in technique. Otherwise, we'd be ticked. That doesn't mean, of course, that every single guard was trained uniformly, but I think there was a lot more focus on it then than now. And there were a whole lot more corps back then, each with guards who, for the most part, were trained in this way.

First off, thank you for your reply, and actually the way you put it makes sense. I can understand what you are refering too. Mind you, I am NOT a guard teacher, instructor or anything like that. I've been around it for 6 years now and just pick up on what is taught, what the instructors say ect .. When I initially said "you can't compare guards today with the 70's" what I meant was in the movement and such. I base this 100% on videos I've seen of guards in the past. I did not march in the 70s, have never spun, trust me you certainly do NOT want me tosses a rifle! I just think that times are different, I'm sure the way musicians march is different now then in the 70s.

Times change and activities such as this have no choise but to change with it and as with many things, sometimes change is for the better, and sometimes it's not.

Once again thank you for your response

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Every once in awhile the tape would break during the middle of their show, but because they still had a military-style program they were able to work their way through it. If that had happened to one of today's guards with all the dancin' and prancin' they do they would probably just be standing out there looking like a bunch of babes who were lost in the woods.

I'm going to assume you've not been to a winter guard show in recent times. If music issues happen...many will keep going until the director stops them and gets the music fixed/restarted. Military-style does not mean they were any more or less disciplined or trained compared to the guards of today. It's just a different style.

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Please let me say, I in no way meant to make less of what guards were doing in past, my pupose was to just stress that things are changing. If what I said came across as a "slam" of guards of yesteryear, I apologize, was not my intent.

EDIT .. I would say in regards to the comment that today's guards are not trained for technique. I've been to many a practice that would question that statement.

Dont even begin to tell me about technique and todays colorguards. You watch any guard toady and you will find multiple individual errors that arent fixed or addressed because the sheets dont "warrant" it.

The way guards pick up and put down equipment, toss/catch technique, even dancing, aside from BD and sometimes a few others, does anybody bother to work on unison and ensemble clarity anymore >>>

Yes guard-dad, you are a spectator and your opinion is that, of a spectator and a Dad of someone in one of the best guards out there.

Facts and opinions aside. Todays guards while creating a -lot more assumed energy from their effort, they dont match the challenge of nailing the repetoire and doing consistently as the guards in the past do.

G

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Let me put it differently. You probably view things in context with Blue Devils, and to that extent, I agree with you. They are definitely trained in technique across the board. However, there are many guards who are not, and it shows. There are guards who are better in dance technique, not so hot on equipment, and vice versa, and some not particularly proficient in any of it. They're just trying to emulate what the higher-ups do, but haven't been trained in the technique of how to do it. In fact, I spent some time with a late '90s guard where that was exactly the case (which is why I didn't stay around very long; nice book, but not much confidence among the individuals because the work and movement weren't being broken down so that everyone knew what we were supposed to be doing at all times). I think that's the biggest difference between then and now. Because the sheets demanded it, guards were pretty much uniformly trained in technique. Otherwise, we'd be ticked. That doesn't mean, of course, that every single guard was trained uniformly, but I think there was a lot more focus on it then than now. And there were a whole lot more corps back then, each with guards who, for the most part, were trained in this way.

Bingo......

G

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First off, thank you for your reply, and actually the way you put it makes sense. I can understand what you are refering too. Mind you, I am NOT a guard teacher, instructor or anything like that. I've been around it for 6 years now and just pick up on what is taught, what the instructors say ect .. When I initially said "you can't compare guards today with the 70's" what I meant was in the movement and such. I base this 100% on videos I've seen of guards in the past. I did not march in the 70s, have never spun, trust me you certainly do NOT want me tosses a rifle! I just think that times are different, I'm sure the way musicians march is different now then in the 70s.

You're most welcome. It always gets my back up when someone compares what was done in the '70s vs. now and says that what is done now is far more complex (implying more demand) than what was done then. You will get no argument from me that things are, indeed, different. But different doesn't carry with it any greater or lesser demand; both styles are equally difficult, but for different reasons. There's a reason that not just anyone could walk in off the streets and march rifle with 27th Lancers. Or Phantom Regiment. Or Madison Scouts. Or Guardsmen. Or Blue Devils. To name just a few.

As someone that marched in the seventies, I have to say the one thing that I find most improved, in drum corps, is the color guard. They have fewer constraints than they had in my day. There is much more dance and less military influence. I always find myself wondering when they are going to get rid of the rifles and sabers. I like seeing spinning rifles, but what do the rifles have to do with anything?

I'm not sure what rifles ever had to do anything once they stopped guarding the national colors, but IMO that's not the point. Rifles are a unique aspect of the color guard activity. You don't see them used this way in any other discipline other than military. Getting rid of them would strip the activity of yet another element that sets it apart from other movement disciplines. In one way, I agree with you: Sabers work beautifully indoors, but IMO are barely visible outdoors . . . with very few exceptions. So I would keep them for winter guard, but really feel like they should be avoided outdoors.

Why have rifles, sabers and flags? It's all about visual interpretation of the music, and how melody and percussion are depicted. Flags work beautifully well depicting melody, while rifles can offer the counterpoint of percussion; sabers often combine the two. And, of course, there's a lot of layering and trading around of all that, and that's the neat thing. Visually we can this rich tapestry of ensemble equipment work that's not available in any other activity. Not to mention the fact that you have people who have trained for years on rifle and saber. Such a rich history and vocabulary of equipment work would be lost if it were eliminated from the activity.

Edited by byline
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