What issues have caused controversy in drumlines?

[wbargeron]

What are some of the lesser known hot topics in drumline evolution? Placing electronics in the pit of course is more recent and got people hot and bothered, but what are some lesser known changes or adaptations that people had a tough time adjusting to? Were things like moving from slings to harnesses or moving the pit from the field to the sideline big issues at the time? Were there issues that were solely regional at the time but became the norm? Just curious...

[sarnia sam]

Issues? None really. All the developments have allowed us to play louder and faster, which is what we all really want to do.

I think allowing tymps and keybords in the late 60s was the only real issue and we can thank Gerry Shellmar (I hope I spelled that right) of the Boston Crusaders for insisting on making them legal. And Boston was the first to used an electronic keyboard in competition in 1985, totally illegal mind you (and I would add I'd have chosen something else besides the Axel F Theme to break ground with).

Of course sitting out for 2 or more minutes during a show could be an issue, I know I'd be bummed I wasn't playing for that length of time druing an 11 minute show.

Some would say Kevlar heads are an issue, but the last couple of years more people are finally figuring out they are just as playable and sound a lot better when they aren't cranked so much.

Regards,

John

Edited August 22, 2009 by sarnia sam

[Gaddabout]

Kevlar heads are still an issue if you're my age or older. Sorry, but they just don't sound like a snare. Even tuned down they sound like table tops. It definitely cleans up the line, though. I'll give you that.

[Jim Nevermann]

I think allowing tymps and keybords in the late 60s was the only real issue

Tymps and TimpToms [both Ludwig] came out early in 1968 on the heels of the different size/pitch bass drums first marched the previous two years. They were eye-opening, to be sure, but I don't recall any controversy with their use. On the other hand, Boston and Anaheim were penalized for their marching orchestra bells [homemade] in '69... although, curiously, traditional glockenspiels [and the odd, eight or nine bar "Bugle Bells": anyone else remember them?] had always been contest legal as far as I know. In 1972, DCI's first year, lines were allowed one cowbell and one woodblock, and I recall that the then-big Veterans organization contests [Legion & VFW] quietly acquiesced to their use the same year.

John Smith [Cabs Alumni drumline]: do you recall any issues with Cabs' first use of timbales, bongos & congas? Besides the Muchachos, I know that a very small handful of other lines used timbales & bongos back in the mid '60s: not all of them Spanish-themed corps either.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Jim Nevermann

[pearlsnaredrummer77]

The "tick" system of judging was a bit of a controversy-still is-some favored it and others hated it. Having marched in a world with ticks and one without (and no flea collar necessary), I think the tick system was useful for judging the larger corps and less so for the smaller (could be intimidating).

[Gaddabout]

The "tick" system of judging was a bit of a controversy-still is-some favored it and others hated it. Having marched in a world with ticks and one without (and no flea collar necessary), I think the tick system was useful for judging the larger corps and less so for the smaller (could be intimidating).

I sort of agree with you. At least with a tick system you felt the judging was standardized and it usually felt fair. I know a lot of people cheered when the tick system went away, but I bet more than a few caption heads would like to return to that system. If you're writing a book, what incentive do you have today of writing something really thick and challenging if there's no clear advantage in doing so? Maybe some judges reward more for a challenging book than others, but that's not something you can anticipate the winter before a season.

Or maybe I have it backwards and tick system meant lots of hosing of the book during the season. I guess that happens regardless, but maybe ticks really did cause too much heartache for caption heads. Would love for a judge to weigh in here.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Gaddabout

[Slow Adam]

Kevlar heads are still an issue if you're my age or older. Sorry, but they just don't sound like a snare. Even tuned down they sound like table tops. It definitely cleans up the line, though. I'll give you that.

I would argue the opposite.

You can hear fleas ####### on kevlar heads.

[TastyWaves]

I would argue the opposite.

You can hear fleas ####### on kevlar heads.

Exactly.

Kevlar is twice as exposed as Mylar.

I love the mylar feel on the hands, but i never loved the sound other than Star of Indiana in 91 and 92.

They used the Premier Marathon Batter Heads. Thier tuning was fantastic.

I dont love the super hi-crank sound on kevlar either, but some corps have a nice tuning model going.

[tommyfromhowardst]

Kevlar heads are still an issue if you're my age or older. Sorry, but they just don't sound like a snare. Even tuned down they sound like table tops. It definitely cleans up the line, though. I'll give you that.

I will follow you into battle!

Kevlar blows. And for those who disagree, kevlar still blows. Sounding like a table top is being nice. Formica kitchen top is more like it. Sure it's more exposed. So's a hand grenade but do you really want to hear one?

For years folks have been trying to get their snares to sound better and better. Tightening heads, using baffling to loose that "ringing" sound that distracted from the snare sound, different guts, snares, etc. Most drum books today sound like a Tommy gun, not music. Tenors sound like timbales, (cool for the Cabs) bass drums sound like muffled tenors without tone and have lost their bottom to the point where corps have to wheel out the big bass in the pit. Remember when SCV's bass drums would fill a whole stadium by themselves?? Or Cavaliers? Bass drums used to say WHOMP, not bimp. It seems drums are tuned so high that nothing seems to be below A440. Heck A880!!

I'm not hatin' on drummers--I've been part of that brotherhood for 40 years--my beef is with the manufacturers. Seems like we've been sold a bill of goods. It's to the point where a couple of ex-Blue Star pals of mine have designed a new snare drum (with the help of some serious engineers) that is light years ahead of what Yamaha or Dynasty want you to think. It sounds like a drum again--without the ring. (More on this soon, couple of manufacturers jockeying for rights) And can handle the pressure. And you can hear the drum (not just the head). The snares themselves sound delicious too. We just want drums to sound like drums again. And it doesn't mean going back to the Krupa days, it means moving past the crap we're dealing with now.

[MikeN]

I've been following DCI for a little over 20 years now, and the percussion topics I can think of that have really caused discussion / dissent -

- introduction of kevlar heads (late 80's). Even after this long, that's probably the biggie.

- introduction of free-floating snares (early 90's). That was the second biggest, I think - like Kevlar / Mylar, the discussion centers on what kind of sound you want from a "modern" drumline

- matched grip vs. traditional - SCV started this debate again in 1995 (and again in 2005)

- tilted snares - SCV again, in ... '98? (Or was it '97?)

- amped pits (naturally) in 2004

Honestly, those are the most divisive issues, I think, though really, from just a sample of drummers that I've seen on here, the amped pits aren't so much an issue. Maybe because I think that as marching drummers we're much more "mechanics" where brass folks are more "artists" - we're in some cases easier with equipment issues. (Although, see kevlar / mylar up there, in some issues, we're totally snobby, too!)

Mike