Blackstar Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Don't you hate when people answer thier own question, Well your going to hate me. Why couldn't a 8-14 place corps win it all or even a 16 to ?? or a Open class corps make finals. First I know all about Magic making finals as a D2 corps but were they reallyt D2? Only in Drum Corps is the top 3 or 4 heck sone years top 9 known 3/4 of the way into the season. One issue I have with the activity is that there can't be upsets. In football one team can beat another on any given day, same with golf, tennis, baseball, horseshoes and even war. (this is were someone points out Nascar) But not drum corps. If say the Colts came out and beat Blue Devils in August, what would people think. And I'm not talking about a down year by BD. I'm talking Colts 89 BD 87. Think of how it would be to have 5-7-9 corps with a chance to win the title going into finals. I think the biggest problem is judging. Its supposed to be blank sheet judging buts its not. If corps A gets a 14.5 in drums then Corps B who had scored higher the last 2 shows has to get at least a 15. And it gets higher from there. Maybe thats why corps are scoring 99's at finals. I've read many times the outrage when scores change dramatically from show to show. But if the tick system is no longer in effect why are corps like Pioneer, Pacific Crest and others scoring so low. If judging is subjective are they being compared to what others are doing or what they are trying to do? Drum Corps is getting like Boxing, There are favorites or those that are expected to win or place at a certain level and thats the way its going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Blue Devils : New York Yankees Colts : Toronto Blue Jays ' Nuff said ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigervault Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I think it'd be interesting to see how corps would place if the first week they all had to compete in black shorts and white shirts. Obviously it'd be apparent which ones were the Scouts/Cavies but beyond that there wouldn't be THAT much else to identify corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) I think it'd be interesting to see how corps would place if the first week they all had to compete in black shorts and white shirts.Obviously it'd be apparent which ones were the Scouts/Cavies but beyond that there wouldn't be THAT much else to identify corps. This was my post from a year ago. What would the scores be if the judges, judged all the Corps for the first time in June without any identifying uniforms, insignia's, etc. ? The Corps went out in street clothes. I'd imagine the marching and brass playing might give the judges a tip off as to who a few Corps were. So it would be next to impossible to do a completely blind test. But in a " blind " judged show, one would expect that the scores and placements would be identical to that of wearing uniforms. We'll never really know if the scores and placement spreads would be the same or not, because it'll never happen. We just have to trust that the results would be identical...... as uniforms, reputation, history, past performances etc I think we'd all agree ,should be meaningless in scores and placements in any given competitive show. Edited December 8, 2009 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 um...maybe those corps could design a show that will compete with the corps that are always higher and clean them? as for Surf...with their schedule, cleaning will always be an issue. still, for their first year in WC, their placement is nothing to sneeze at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) um...maybe those corps could design a show that will compete with the corps that are always higher and clean them?as for Surf...with their schedule, cleaning will always be an issue. still, for their first year in WC, their placement is nothing to sneeze at True.... and maybe the Toronto Blue Jays could learn to hit, field, and throw a baseball better than the New York Yankees too. It seems to me that the Colts "could design a show " and execute it better than the Blue Devils with the same chances as the Toronto Blue Jays can put out a baseball team that can finish ahead of the New York Yankees in the AL East. Edited December 9, 2009 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Don't you hate when people answer thier own question, Well your going to hate me. Why couldn't a 8-14 place corps win it all or even a 16 to ?? or a Open class corps make finals. First I know all about Magic making finals as a D2 corps but were they reallyt D2? Only in Drum Corps is the top 3 or 4 heck sone years top 9 known 3/4 of the way into the season. One issue I have with the activity is that there can't be upsets. In football one team can beat another on any given day, same with golf, tennis, baseball, horseshoes and even war. (this is were someone points out Nascar) But not drum corps. If say the Colts came out and beat Blue Devils in August, what would people think. And I'm not talking about a down year by BD. I'm talking Colts 89 BD 87. Think of how it would be to have 5-7-9 corps with a chance to win the title going into finals. I think the biggest problem is judging. Its supposed to be blank sheet judging buts its not. If corps A gets a 14.5 in drums then Corps B who had scored higher the last 2 shows has to get at least a 15. And it gets higher from there. Maybe thats why corps are scoring 99's at finals. I've read many times the outrage when scores change dramatically from show to show. But if the tick system is no longer in effect why are corps like Pioneer, Pacific Crest and others scoring so low. If judging is subjective are they being compared to what others are doing or what they are trying to do? Drum Corps is getting like Boxing, There are favorites or those that are expected to win or place at a certain level and thats the way its going to be. I understand what you are getting at here and I agree... kind of. There is a little bit of benefit of the doubt given to some corps at the beginning of the season and maybe even some prejudice against some other corps at the beginning of the season. BUT I think things work themselves out right by the end of the season. An example of this would be Phantom this past year. Champs in 2008 and then came out of the gates scoring right in the mix with everyone else at the top. After multiple veiwings the judges felt that they should be lower... and lower.... and lower. In my opinion, their placement at the end was right. The biggest reason why you don't see those corps down in the lower part of the pack not winning is because they are nowhere near the level of the Blue Devils, Crown, & The Cavaliers. They just aren't. There is really arguing the what-ifs until we see a corps that was 8-14th make a meteoric rise to the top by PERFORMING well enough to do so (not even mentioning having a top tier show design). Two things of note: 1- you mentioned 16- whatever place corps can't make finals. The Troopers proved that is untrue. They were 16th in 2008 and nobody outside of Casper thought they would make finals in 2010... but they did. 2. In 1997. SCV was scoring over 10 points behind the blue devils at their home show. Many people thought they would not make finals (they were that bad). They tied BD for first at quarters that year and ended up taking third.... soooo I am not sure that the judges should be completely hung out to dry. They got it right in the beginning of the season with BD & SCV and they got it right at Qf's as well as finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 1- you mentioned 16- whatever place corps can't make finals. The Troopers proved that is untrue. They were 16th in 2008 and nobody outside of Casper thought they would make finals in 2010... but they did. Oh? Say, can I borrow your crystal ball for a bit? I wanna see what next week's lotto numbers are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamMan Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Don't you hate when people answer thier own question, Well your going to hate me. Why couldn't a 8-14 place corps win it all or even a 16 to ?? or a Open class corps make finals. First I know all about Magic making finals as a D2 corps but were they reallyt D2? Only in Drum Corps is the top 3 or 4 heck sone years top 9 known 3/4 of the way into the season. One issue I have with the activity is that there can't be upsets. In football one team can beat another on any given day, same with golf, tennis, baseball, horseshoes and even war. (this is were someone points out Nascar) But not drum corps. If say the Colts came out and beat Blue Devils in August, what would people think. And I'm not talking about a down year by BD. I'm talking Colts 89 BD 87. Think of how it would be to have 5-7-9 corps with a chance to win the title going into finals. I think the biggest problem is judging. Its supposed to be blank sheet judging buts its not. If corps A gets a 14.5 in drums then Corps B who had scored higher the last 2 shows has to get at least a 15. And it gets higher from there. Maybe thats why corps are scoring 99's at finals. I've read many times the outrage when scores change dramatically from show to show. But if the tick system is no longer in effect why are corps like Pioneer, Pacific Crest and others scoring so low. If judging is subjective are they being compared to what others are doing or what they are trying to do? Drum Corps is getting like Boxing, There are favorites or those that are expected to win or place at a certain level and thats the way its going to be. You must be new to drum corps. Welcome to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 If you want to get the fruit you have to climb the tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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