Blackstar Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Oh my God people. First I used the corps mentioned as an example. Replace Blue Devils with Cadets, Cavailers, SCV and Phantom. Replace Colts with Spirit, Blue Knights, Blue Stars, Academy. The point wasn't about BD or the Colts the if you really read what was written was the fact that only 8 corps has won the title since DCI started. Thats 37 years. Thats like the Yankees, winning every 4th year. Only 5 corps have won it in the last 10 years. Only in Drum Corps is it possible for a corps to knew out fo the gate that they will make finals. Think the Redskins (and I hate to keep using examples because you people lose focus) know before they play a game thier going to the playoff. If the NFL was drumn corps the Saints would be 6-6 instead of 12-0 because thats their history. No one mentioned that the tick system is tear down while the new system is build up. I've seen video of some of the "lower tier" corps and guess what, thier prettty good. BUt what happens, in a show Manderin get 25 in GE so SCV HAS to get a 28 because that what they got yesturday. What would happen if Manderin had a killer show one day, everything came together, Could they beat BD, Cadets, Phantom, HELL to the NO. I'm talking late July or early August. People would lose thier ever lovin mind. But in the end it really doesn't matter. People only what the "best" of the best. Who cares that kids are out their busting thier butts and don't have a chance in hell. Why because thats the system. God bless this activity for a long as it last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 The point wasn't about BD or the Colts the if you really read what was written was the fact that only 8 corps has won the title since DCI started. Thats 37 years. Thats like the Yankees, winning every 4th year. Only 5 corps have won it in the last 10 years. Only in Drum Corps is it possible for a corps to knew out fo the gate that they will make finals. Think the Redskins (and I hate to keep using examples because you people lose focus) know before they play a game thier going to the playoff. If the NFL was drumn corps the Saints would be 6-6 instead of 12-0 because thats their history. No one mentioned that the tick system is tear down while the new system is build up. I've seen video of some of the "lower tier" corps and guess what, thier prettty good. BUt what happens, in a show Manderin get 25 in GE so SCV HAS to get a 28 because that what they got yesturday. What would happen if Manderin had a killer show one day, everything came together, Could they beat BD, Cadets, Phantom, HELL to the NO. I'm talking late July or early August. People would lose thier ever lovin mind. But in the end it really doesn't matter. People only what the "best" of the best. Who cares that kids are out their busting thier butts and don't have a chance in hell. Why because thats the system. God bless this activity for a long as it last. Ummm....right. Are any of those kids that placed 14th or 18th or whatever crying about this?? I doubt you are one of them, because they probably arent. And havent the yankees pretty much averaged a world series every year??....oops, bad analogy And if the NFL was drum corps, the Saints would be crown. Never won nuthin, and were downright bad not long ago, but made it pretty close to the superbowl recently. Now, in this given year, they are totally going to win (me talking about the saints, whom i love) And no, if the Mandarins had a killer show, they still wouldnt beat the cadets...why? because the cadets were probably still pretty good...and when your show design and talent is that much better, your decent day beats another corps great day...and thats how it is. It doesnt work that way in the NFL because of trades, waiver wires, and salary caps, and until we start paying DCI marchers to do their thing, its not going to change.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 The point wasn't about BD or the Colts the if you really read what was written was the fact that only 8 corps has won the title since DCI started. Thats 37 years. Thats like the Yankees, winning every 4th year. Heh, bad example. The Yankees have won 27 titles since their first in 1923. That's 27 in 87 years, which means they've done you one better by winning close to every 3rd year. If you count all the championships DCI has awarded - that is, counting each tie as a full championship - then the Yankees and Blue Devils have been winning at an almost identical rate. What would happen if Manderin had a killer show one day, everything came together, Could they beat BD, Cadets, Phantom, HELL to the NO. I'm talking late July or early August. People would lose thier ever lovin mind. So, because the Mandarins had a great run, we are to simply hand them a victory over a corps that performed better? Maybe you disagree, but I'd rather work hard and finish last every time than have someone give me a victory just because they thought it was my turn. How hollow that would be. The only time the Mandarins should beat the Cadets, Blue Devils or Phantom, is if the Mandarins legitimately outperformed those corps. Now maybe you think I'm being too specific by using just your example of the Mandarins; unfortunately specifics are what this discussion requires. Name me a specific instance where you thought the Mandarins should have beat Santa Clara, but didn't get the score. What show were you at when you had this specific thought, that prompted your original post? Because if you had this thought only while sitting at your computer, or watching the scores come in, then I suggest you get out there and see where the scores are coming from. While reasonable minds may quibble over a placement or two, I think you'd find that the numbers largely do reflect reality. But in the end it really doesn't matter. People only what the "best" of the best. Who cares that kids are out their busting thier butts and don't have a chance in hell. Why because thats the system. God bless this activity for a long as it last. Whoever it was that said 'if you want the fruit, you have to climb the tree', I adore you. That's the perfect metaphor. If you want to beat Phantom, Blue Devils, Cavaliers, etc., go out there and do it. Crown was even nice enough to show you how. Every corps worth a #### has members who bust their butt. Busting your butt, by itself, is not enough. The only way to win a championship is to perform a better show at a higher level than anyone else. The reason we have so few champions is because that's very, very hard to do. But if it were easy - if victories and championships were handed out like candy, where everyone got their turn - then what would be the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Oh my God people. First I used the corps mentioned as an example. Replace Blue Devils with Cadets, Cavailers, SCV and Phantom. Replace Colts with Spirit, Blue Knights, Blue Stars, Academy. The point wasn't about BD or the Colts the if you really read what was written was the fact that only 8 corps has won the title since DCI started. Thats 37 years. Thats like the Yankees, winning every 4th year. Only 5 corps have won it in the last 10 years. Only in Drum Corps is it possible for a corps to knew out fo the gate that they will make finals. Think the Redskins (and I hate to keep using examples because you people lose focus) know before they play a game thier going to the playoff. If the NFL was drumn corps the Saints would be 6-6 instead of 12-0 because thats their history. No one mentioned that the tick system is tear down while the new system is build up. I've seen video of some of the "lower tier" corps and guess what, thier prettty good. BUt what happens, in a show Manderin get 25 in GE so SCV HAS to get a 28 because that what they got yesturday. What would happen if Manderin had a killer show one day, everything came together, Could they beat BD, Cadets, Phantom, HELL to the NO. I'm talking late July or early August. People would lose thier ever lovin mind. But in the end it really doesn't matter. People only what the "best" of the best. Who cares that kids are out their busting thier butts and don't have a chance in hell. Why because thats the system. God bless this activity for a long as it last. you do realize the tick system was as subjective if not more than the current system right? there was no universal tick. your tick may not be the same as my tick. in fact, if anything, the system now is a thousand times less ambiguous than the tick system was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doogiempt Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 And no, if the Mandarins had a killer show, they still wouldnt beat the cadets...why? because the cadets were probably still pretty good...and when your show design and talent is that much better, your decent day beats another corps great day...and thats how it is. It doesnt work that way in the NFL because of trades, waiver wires, and salary caps, and until we start paying DCI marchers to do their thing, its not going to change.... Do you remember in 2006 midseason when we had an AWFUL show (the entire drum break was one huge ensemble tear...even the snareline wasn't on the same beat of each measure) and not only did we still beat Phantom by a pretty decent margin, but we also creamed them in drums? I remember being so confused about how that could happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaners Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 dude, what? show me a DVD of any non-finalist corps that if put up against review, judges, or anyone, would change their minds about who should beat who. you wont find one, i promise. In fact, you would be really hard pressed to find a corp out of the top 3 whom could beat the winner of that same year. I understand what you are saying about upsets, unfortunately for you, this activity does not work that way. As my Dad likes to say, "the proof is in the pudding." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ussglassman Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Drum corps judging is so complex, a fan could never totally make sense of it. I marched Mandarins during the highest-scoring year of their history (2003-80.3) and I can tell you that there was no way possible that we could have made finals, or even contended for it. That wasn't the staff's fault, they worked their butts off. That wasn't the judges fault, they commended us consistently for the difficulty and challenges of our show. That wasn't the members fault either; every rehearsal we focused 110% and left everything we had out on the field. You know whose fault it is that a 13th on down corps didnt make finals or win? Its LIFE! Some corps don't have the recruiting base that the Blue Devils have. Some corps dont have the $ to host camps in 4 different states. Some corps dont have the sponsorship to custom build their own instruments, or pull membership from their own feeder program. But you know what? Those disadvantaged corps still come out and compete every year they are financially able, because their members know that that is what they love doing. Was I disappointed that my corps was edged by hundredths of a point to make semifinals? YES! Did I think my corps had been legitimately outperformed by the corps who edged us out for finals? YES! You know what I did to deal with my disappointment? I went into the stands....and watched some good drum corps shows, and enjoyed myself....In other words, get over it, life goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseyboy Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) No one thought Anaheim could WIN the first DCI Championship after coming in 3rd in prelims by 3.2 No one thought SCV could come back to WIN in 1981 to win after finishing 7th in 1980. No one thought Phantom could WIN in 1996 after coming in 5th in 1995 No one thought Phantom could WIN in 1996 after coming in 4th in quarter finals... down 3.7 No one thought Madison could WIN in 1988 after finishing 7th and 6th the two previous years. No one thought MADISON would DROP to 7th in 1989 after WINNING in 1988 No one thought Phantom would DROP to 9th after WINNING in 2008. never say never........ Edited December 10, 2009 by FanofNight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shostahoosier Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 And no, if the Mandarins had a killer show, they still wouldnt beat the cadets...why? because the cadets were probably still pretty good...and when your show design and talent is that much better, your decent day beats another corps great day... And this is the thinking that bothers a lot of people...that whether or not a corps performs well enough...the historically better corps will get the benefit of the doubt because they "were probably still pretty good". And dont even get me started on "numbers management"...if a corps performs well enough in a caption to earn a 15.0...dont give them a 14.8 because it would be too close to an elite corps that will "probably" be better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCIfan90 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 No one thought Anaheim could WIN the first DCI Championship after coming in 3rd in prelims by 3.2No one thought SCV could come back to WIN in 1981 to win after finishing 7th in 1980. No one thought Phantom could WIN in 1996 after coming in 5th in 1995 No one thought Phantom could WIN in 1996 after coming in 4th in quarter finals... down 3.7 No one thought Madison could WIN in 1988 after finishing 7th and 6th the two previous years. No one thought MADISON would DROP to 7th in 1989 after WINNING in 1988 No one thought Phantom would DROP to 9th after WINNING in 2008. never say never........ Fixed. You seem to know your stuff. I'm sure it was just a typo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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