drumno5 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Drum corps is an actitivity where there are only a handful of corps that will ever be scored high. You can b*tch and complain all you want about elitism, conspiracy, what-have-you. But it really works more like this: Cadets: 1979-16th; 1980-10th; 1981-7th; 1982-3rd; 1983-1st. For you youngsters out there, Crown: 2002-16th; 2003-10th; 2004-9th; 2005-7th; 2006-8th; 2007-6th; 2008-4th; 2009-2nd. Star, Spirit in their heydey - there's probably a couple more. but I hope you get my drift. These groups didn't just magically appear among the top finishers. They built a strong team, brought something new to the table, and worked their way up into the first tier. That groups like BD and SCV have remained among the elite for so long is a tribute to their ability to maintain a level of excellence, and remain cutting edge through years of changing style and fashion. When Phantom had a rough year following their 2008 championship season, the system had no problem dropping them into 10th place in 2009; best of luck to them as they work to step back up. Probably best to leave the white shirts and black shorts at the bottom of the tour bags. You might find out what you don't want to know: that the perennial heavyweights are among the leaders every year because they consistently put out top level groups, not because of some kind of imagined favoritism based on the uniforms they're wearing. Fred O. Edited December 11, 2009 by drumno5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flugelswerebugels Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 ..., SCV '73, Scouts '75, Blue Devils '76, Cadets '83, Star '91, Cavaliers '92, Phantom '95...Who will be next: Crown? BAC? Name your fave - and good luck to all! Fred O. I don't see the evidence of where a corps usually in the 8-14 range should have beaten one of the top 6. But this list of first time winners does show that we are currently in by far the longest period in DCI history without a new champion. Wonder if there was ever a 14 year period (Phantom tied in 96, didn't they?) of AL/VFW without a new champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) I don't see the evidence of where a corps usually in the 8-14 range should have beaten one of the top 6. I think you missed my point. Fred O. Edited December 11, 2009 by drumno5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 You can b*tch and complain all you want about elitism, conspiracy, what-have-you. But it really works more like this: Cadets: 1979-16th; 1980-10th; 1981-7th; 1982-3rd; 1983-1st. For you youngsters out there, Crown: 2002-16th; 2003-10th; 2004-9th; 2005-7th; 2006-8th; 2007-6th; 2008-4th; 2009-2nd. Star, Spirit in their heydey - there's probably a couple more. but I hope you get my drift. These groups didn't just magically appear among the top finishers. They built a strong team, brought something new to the table, and worked their way up into the first tier. That groups like BD and SCV have remained among the elite for so long is a tribute to their ability to maintain a level of excellence, and remain cutting edge through years of changing style and fashion. When Phantom had a rough year following their 2008 championship season, the system had no problem dropping them into 10th place in 2009; best of luck to them as they work to step back up. Probably best to leave the white shirts and black shorts at the bottom of the tour bags. You might find out what you don't want to know: that the perennial heavyweights are among the leaders every year because they consistently put out top level groups, not because of some kind of imagined favoritism based on the uniforms they're wearing. Fred O. good call. if I recall, the Cavies were out of finals in 78, and it took them until 1985 to be a "power" hell look at Boston.....a charter member that didn't make finals until 1999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 You can b*tch and complain all you want about elitism, conspiracy, what-have-you. ...... the perennial heavyweights are among the leaders every year because they consistently put out top level groups, not because of some kind of imagined favoritism based on the uniforms they're wearing. I mostly agree. Corps at the top are executing at a very high level. OTOH I do think that your name buys you the "benefit of the doubt" on your design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) I mostly agree. Corps at the top are executing at a very high level. OTOH I do think that your name buys you the "benefit of the doubt" on your design. Yeah, you're probably right. But my point is that you have to get there first. You're not just anointed by divine providence or shuffled to the front of the queue through back room politics. And once you arrive, you'd better stay on top of your game. If you can manage to stay for a while you may get a little grace, but for the most part it's easier to get squeezed out than some folks realize (or would like to admit). Fred O. Edited December 11, 2009 by drumno5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) You can b*tch and complain all you want about elitism, conspiracy, what-have-you. But it really works more like this: Cadets: 1979-16th; 1980-10th; 1981-7th; 1982-3rd; 1983-1st. For you youngsters out there, Crown: 2002-16th; 2003-10th; 2004-9th; 2005-7th; 2006-8th; 2007-6th; 2008-4th; 2009-2nd. Star, Spirit in their heydey - there's probably a couple more. but I hope you get my drift. These groups didn't just magically appear among the top finishers. They built a strong team, brought something new to the table, and worked their way up into the first tier. That groups like BD and SCV have remained among the elite for so long is a tribute to their ability to maintain a level of excellence, and remain cutting edge through years of changing style and fashion. When Phantom had a rough year following their 2008 championship season, the system had no problem dropping them into 10th place in 2009; best of luck to them as they work to step back up. Probably best to leave the white shirts and black shorts at the bottom of the tour bags. You might find out what you don't want to know: that the perennial heavyweights are among the leaders every year because they consistently put out top level groups, not because of some kind of imagined favoritism based on the uniforms they're wearing. Fred O. Money +organization+ tradition of winning titles : best staff money can buy : best performing talent in the world : 83 % chance of finishing in the Top 3 every single year : parents and kids knowing these stats : start all over in the off season again with money+ resources + tradition of winn.......... well, you get the drift. And that's the tried and true formula for success since 1972. This is not quantum physics or rocket science here as to why BD, Cavs, Cadets by and large dominate the activity. Edited December 11, 2009 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Money +organization+ tradition of winning titles : best staff money can buy : best performing talent in the world : 83 % chance of finishing in the Top 3 every single year : parents and kids knowing these stats : start all over in the off season again with money+ resources + tradition of winn.......... well, you get the drift.And that's the tried and true formula for success since 1972. This is not quantum physics or rocket science here as to why BD, Cavs, Cadets by and large dominate the activity. Yup. That's 38 years of work. The question is: Has anyone recognized this formula and made it work for them? ANS: Carolina Crown. Now, philosophically speaking, is it possible for Carolina Crown to stay up there, Madison to enter the fray again, Phantom to get back on its feet, Bluecoats+SCV to continue their excellence, and BD/Cadets/Cavies be as solid ALL AT ONCE? And don't forget Blue Stars...another DCI Darling, trying to follow the model. And Troopers are "BACK, Baby!" (right?) (QUICK ASIDE: Bluecoats and BAC seem to be "let's do it our way" and not necessarily DCI Darlings, but that's for another day) So, everyone's going to be great, right? Umm, no... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Yup. That's 38 years of work. The question is: Has anyone recognized this formula and made it work for them? ANS: Carolina Crown. Now, philosophically speaking, is it possible for Carolina Crown to stay up there, Madison to enter the fray again, Phantom to get back on its feet, Bluecoats+SCV to continue their excellence, and BD/Cadets/Cavies be as solid ALL AT ONCE? And don't forget Blue Stars...another DCI Darling, trying to follow the model. And Troopers are "BACK, Baby!" (right?) (QUICK ASIDE: Bluecoats and BAC seem to be "let's do it our way" and not necessarily DCI Darlings, but that's for another day) So, everyone's going to be great, right? Umm, no... No, only 3 can" be great", long term.....BD, Cadets, Cavs. Crown might ultimately turn out to be Madison, Phantom ( winning 2 titles )..... SCV ( winning a few more).......Star ( winning one, then disappearing )..... 27th ( rising as high as 2nd,then disappearing ), etc. We really don't know. No one does. All we have to speculate on these things, is history. And history is not on Crown's side. But then again, they have such little history that no one would say that they CAN'T be multiple title winners over a period of decades. Their quest however is to try and win ONE title,... then go from there. It's one thing to knock off 1 or 2 out of these 3 Elite Corps in a single season. To Crown's credit they did that last season. But it's quite another thing altogether to knock off ALL THREE in a given season.... AND the others..... to win it all. And then to repeat the next year, and the next, and the next, etc...... but that's where TRUE greatness comes in too. Here's hoping Crown ( or any others for that matter )can buck those odds. Edited December 11, 2009 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 No, only 3 can" be great", long term.... That's an arbitrary conclusion (which is fine). In 10 years, if Crown has 3-4 wins, and the rest split amongst BD/Cadets/Cavies then we'll be talking about the Top 4. What if SCV gets one or 2 in there? And Phantom? Maybe Madison will get one in 5 years? If all of that happens, then we'll know the talent pool has spread out, and the corps will be more equal. More likely than not, Crown will supplant Cavies, if we stick with your condition of "only 3." I'll even give Crown a few more years of 2nd and 3rd place finishes. They've played the game the right way (ie DCI Darling). They WILL BE rewarded, trust me, lol. The chances of them dropping to 6th or lower (as Bloo has done since 2007) are very slim. The pressure is on Crown, and the judging community to give it to them. They only have to be "almost as good" as BD one of these times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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