Integration in drum corps?

[HornsUp]

For the first 25 years of their existence, even thought they were a YMCA affiliate, the Racine Kilties were all-white.

Then in 1960, they recruited Perry Lee, who had been a soloist in the AL National Championship Elks Band.

As the first Afro-American Kiltie, Perry marched soprano for his ageout year. And "Mr. Lee" was also given a paying position teaching the buglers of the newly-formed Kiltie Kadets.

A few years later, Perry's buglers comprised a majority of the hornline as the big Kilties won their three VFW National Championships.

Mr. Lee took his talents to the Peace Corps for a number of years. But his legacy lived on in the rich sound of the Kiltie hornline.

[amadorj]

Good points. As for " gays ", there is more acceptance overall in American society of " gays " since the 1970's to today. And as a result, there is more acceptance of " gays " in Drum Corps as well.

Furthermore, I think it's fair to say that DCI has evolved into one of the most accepting of openly " gay " members of any multi cultural youth organization in America, musical or otherwise.

As for overall black participation percentages dropping in Drum Corps since 1970 though, this is unfortunate, and there are probably a number of reasons for this. But it is a shame, really.

Just to add to this (wanted to point out a success story) - for the many Latinos (like myself) who were there in the beginng with Gail Royer when he started the Santa Clara Vanguard, it was great to see the diversity continue on throughout the decades with the corps members to include the corps staff (Fred Sanchez) and directorship (Rick Valenzuela) plus many other examples. Gails's vision of openness carried on with "his kids" as he set the standard for diversity in drum corps.

Edited February 10, 2010 by amadorj

[Storkysr]

I think that the single biggest factor in DCI membership today is financial (ability to pay tour and other fees). This observation seems to be largely ignored in this discussion. How this correlates with the inclusion/exclusion of various ethnic groups seems to reflect the national income data, at least to a significant degree. Just a theory

[pearlsnaredrummer77]

I think that the single biggest factor in DCI membership today is financial (ability to pay tour and other fees). This observation seems to be largely ignored in this discussion. How this correlates with the inclusion/exclusion of various ethnic groups seems to reflect the national income data, at least to a significant degree. Just a theory

Bill-good point. I would venture to say that racism used to be a personal problem-more because of openly displayed bigoted attitudes. Besides a few goofballs in the society at the margins (KKK, etc.,) I don't think those kinds of personal racial issues are as salient in this day and age. Unfortunately, the legacy of earlier periods in American history where racism was so pervasive is that African Americans and Latinos still lag behind in economic status. That is probably an element in their decline in drum corps as the touring fees have become steadily more expensive. I also think that working-class white kids also probably find modern day junior corps beyond their fiscal means.

[Ahamay Oton]

I know the Madison Scouts have had African Americans in the corps since their first year in 1938.

I believe there are photos from that era to confirm your statement.

[bass5]

I believe there are photos from that era to confirm your statement.

I actually checked the 1938 corps photo prior to posting.

Today Chris Komnick posted a history of the Scouts 1938-2008 on the Scouts facebook page.

The cover has the 1938 corps photo.

[deftguy]

I think that the single biggest factor in DCI membership today is financial (ability to pay tour and other fees). This observation seems to be largely ignored in this discussion. How this correlates with the inclusion/exclusion of various ethnic groups seems to reflect the national income data, at least to a significant degree. Just a theory

I am glad you brought this angle up, since it has been largely undiscussed in this thread. What I didn't want is this conversation to degenerate into some sort of conpiracy that DCI does not care about diversity.

It is a money issue pure and simple. All statistics point to the reality that minorities(or quite a few of them) just do not have the disposable income to support participation in Drum Corps, and that is the bottom line. The reasons for this are numerous, but one cannot brush aside institutionalized racism in this country as a part of the reason. Another angle, it is just not "cool" to be a band geek amoungst minorities.

In my high school(all boys catholic school), I was one of only two minorities in the school, and the only one that was affiliated with the band( I was in the guard). This school was a medium size school with a great musical and arts program. I grew up in New York City, and when my friends found out I spun a rifle, I was rediculed like crazy, but they respected me because I got a chance to travel all over the US, and many of them never left Brooklyn or the Bronx. By the time I was in my last year, there were two more Latino's and four African Americans in the school, and all in the band. It was really tough for them because our band traveled alot, and it costs alot of money to participate in band, and pay the high tuition to go to that school. Because they couldn't afford both, those six guys participated in the brass esemble only(they didn't travel) rather than the marching band. So you have six very good musicians that wanted to march, but could not afford to do so.

When I joined Drum Corps(of which alot of the band members at my school did), tour and membership fees were reasonable and easily affordable for my parents as it was for many minorities who were interested(and there were many at the time). Now with minority incomes falling or stagnant, the decision is do I support my kid in Drum Corps, or do we eat, have a roof over our heads, and buy medicine(health care). That is where we are at. The schools with large minority poplulations do not have the tax base to support musical programs(let alone basic education), so they are basically non-existant. If the money was there, it usually goes to sports programs like basketball and football, not band or orchestra. In the city I used to live in, there was no music programs in the entire district except a vocal program that I volunteered to run. No band, no orchestra, no musical instruction whatsoever.

As the cost of Drum Corps keeps inching upwards, you will see fewer and fewer minorities participating because it just plain cost too much to participate. Deal with this issue(it ain't going to happen) and diversity will return to Drum Corps. Drum Corps seems to be going the opposite direction(making it more expensive year over year), so I think whatever diversity we currently see(next to none), is the best it's going to get.

[BRASSO]

I am glad you brought this angle up, since it has been largely undiscussed in this thread. What I didn't want is this conversation to degenerate into some sort of conpiracy that DCI does not care about diversity.

It is a money issue pure and simple. All statistics point to the reality that minorities(or quite a few of them) just do not have the disposable income to support participation in Drum Corps, and that is the bottom line. The reasons for this are numerous, but one cannot brush aside institutionalized racism in this country as a part of the reason. Another angle, it is just not "cool" to be a band geek amoungst minorities.

In my high school(all boys catholic school), I was one of only two minorities in the school, and the only one that was affiliated with the band( I was in the guard). This school was a medium size school with a great musical and arts program. I grew up in New York City, and when my friends found out I spun a rifle, I was rediculed like crazy, but they respected me because I got a chance to travel all over the US, and many of them never left Brooklyn or the Bronx. By the time I was in my last year, there were two more Latino's and four African Americans in the school, and all in the band. It was really tough for them because our band traveled alot, and it costs alot of money to participate in band, and pay the high tuition to go to that school. Because they couldn't afford both, those six guys participated in the brass esemble only(they didn't travel) rather than the marching band. So you have six very good musicians that wanted to march, but could not afford to do so.

When I joined Drum Corps(of which alot of the band members at my school did), tour and membership fees were reasonable and easily affordable for my parents as it was for many minorities who were interested(and there were many at the time). Now with minority incomes falling or stagnant, the decision is do I support my kid in Drum Corps, or do we eat, have a roof over our heads, and buy medicine(health care). That is where we are at. The schools with large minority poplulations do not have the tax base to support musical programs(let alone basic education), so they are basically non-existant. If the money was there, it usually goes to sports programs like basketball and football, not band or orchestra. In the city I used to live in, there was no music programs in the entire district except a vocal program that I volunteered to run. No band, no orchestra, no musical instruction whatsoever.

As the cost of Drum Corps keeps inching upwards, you will see fewer and fewer minorities participating because it just plain cost too much to participate. Deal with this issue(it ain't going to happen) and diversity will return to Drum Corps. Drum Corps seems to be going the opposite direction(making it more expensive year over year), so I think whatever diversity we currently see(next to none), is the best it's going to get.

Asian- Americans are an example of a minority group that on average have higher disposable incomes than most other ethnic minority groups in the US. As a result, it is not surprising that as a percentage of overall marchers in DCI, their percentage of participation level is higher now than early Drum Corps years. This does lend some credence that participation levels in DCI is much more income based re. " diversity " than some other factors.

Edited February 11, 2010 by BRASSO

[Abbevillekid26]

I think that the single biggest factor in DCI membership today is financial (ability to pay tour and other fees). This observation seems to be largely ignored in this discussion. How this correlates with the inclusion/exclusion of various ethnic groups seems to reflect the national income data, at least to a significant degree. Just a theory

thank you this is what I said like 4 pages ago.

[nemesiscorps]

Here's something I observed. BAC didn't make finals until they diversified their membership. I know alot of other factors were involved but this always stuck in my head.

Our former chief of police here in Milwaukee marched with the Starliters (?) bitd. He talked about this in a newspaper article a few years back. He told about having to cross the 16th Street viaduct to get to rehearsals. Back in the early 60's that was something a Black person simply did not do. Now that was a kid who wanted to march!

It would be great if more people had the balls to start up corps/drum lines in urban areas. Just imagine what an effect that would have on those involved.

I believe at one time Pioneer had a co-operative relationship with the Boys/Girls Club. Anyone know if that is still happening?

Unfortunately, the Pioneer/Boys & Girls Club relationship faded in the early-mid 90's.

Ironically, it was that diverse group of members in the corps (a truly local membership at the time) that stayed together for so many years (roughly 87-94) and built the Div. II-III dominant corps that captured a respectable string of Midwest and National Championships. Their success attracted new members and staff from around the country to join the corps, and several of those local members (many of them minorities) lost their spots to more talented kids from other states.

Some cautioned against abandoning the commitment to serving the local populace, but the temptation to "fast track" a way to competitive success was too great. As history now shows, it was a relatively short-lived ride into moderate Div. I success, and since roughly 94-95, the corps has not been able to capture and sustain the benefits of what that diversity once brought to the corps. As I look back, I personally believe that had the corps stayed the course on building quality from the inside (turning local kids into drum corps kids), it could still be competitively strong today in many ways, and the impact on Milwaukee's local youth involvement in music would be notable as well.

Here's an organization where diversity is still valued, as every year the corps affords a contingent of South African youth the opportunity to experience the US and the benefits of being a member of Pioneer, but that's a completely different dynamic from what was happening years ago.