College vs Move-ins?

[kauliflower]

There do seem to be some interesting experiences with professors who want to fail their cohort and those who just want to push them through. I will have to assess my situation once I'm there, no point guessing all my professors will be axe-murderers.

Donny, I am very grateful that Pioneer is an option and I hear great things about your corps, but it is corps like Phantom Regiment which first inspired me to pursue drum corps across the seas and I intend on giving them a shot first. I see Alex's point completely - I would be spewing if I was cut so that another member could miss 3 weeks of rehearsal when I could make all of them, and I would also be a bit annoyed if we couldn't rehearse properly because there a large mass of members missing. That said, it does happen so you just make the best of these situations I guess. Haha, I am a sports coach. Can you tell?

[AlexL]

PR certainly makes things more difficult for your situation, given that if you do try to make classes and some rehearsals over those 3 weeks thatd be a lot of flying, which gets expensive. Not that i havent seen that done before, but yeah..

[chaos001]

My undergraduate university had a strict "no early exams" policy. I hope that UC-I allows it.

[soccerguy315]

What you are saying is not true. Most classes in your major at Irvine are graded on a curve. Because of the competition, an 80 can be the average score and a C. When the class is curved, the professor determines the percentage to fail, which can be 25%-30% of the class. An a C- is failing if the class is in your major.

This is not always true in GE classes.

why would anyone sign up for a class where 25% of the students fail? Unless Irvine is failing hundreds (if not thousands) of kids out of school each semester, that number seems extremely high. For comparison purposes, F's account for less than 1.5% of the grades handed out at my school [that I no longer attend]. I suppose it is possible that there are lots of kids at Irvine who don't care at all so they don't show up to class or study, and then they would deserve an F, but I can't believe there are that many.

[Stu]

I am completely amazed at this thread. We are not talking about a one-day or a single weekend conflict here, but weeks worth of corps rehearsals versus weeks worth of university course work. Both University and Drum Corps are major commitments; entities that require dedication, hard work, and consistency from the student for any level of success. Yes, some minor conflicts can normally be rectified through reasonable compromise (i.e. a Day or a Weekend). However, a quality university will require a student to adhere to attendance obligations; and a quality corps will do the same. Any professor or instructor that allows a breakdown on that demand is actually harming the student as well as damaging the reputation of the institution. For example, imagine a NASA engineer talking to an astronaut in which safety is involved and the engineer states that although he missed a lot of his undergraduate Math classes, his university professors let it slide so that he could win a gold medal at DCI Championships. Where did this Entitlement idea come from in which we can expect to do everything we want in life and then expect others to just give into when we want do them? That is Vanity. Quality, in all of its forms, takes sacrifice. Maybe university has to be put on hold; maybe DCI is something that has to be sacrificed. But when weeks worth of conflicts arise one has to take precedent. Otherwise, the best life-long interest of the student is sacrificed at one or both of the institutions. Just my thoughts.

[piperguy]

I can't believe I'm actually reading that some of you advocate taking a lower college grade in order to make move-ins on time! Where are your priorities?! I am proudly a member of the "dinosaur" community, and as such, I understand how drum corps might seem to be the biggest priority in ones' young life. Unfortunately, the real world does not work this way. While drum corps was a major part of my youth and helped tremendously in developing a solid work ethic, I have found that how well one does in college has a much greater impact on future success than the growth one achieves from drum corps. For example, graduate schools for specific majors (IE. physical therapy) are getting extremely competitive. I have seen a prospective applicant get cut for as little as .05 of a grade point average. Future employers are much more likely to look at academic achievement before they even consider if you marched in a corps. They probably won't even know what a corps is.

My opinion, take it or leave it.....do the best you can in school first. If the corps is worth your time and effort, they must understand that education must come first.

Edited May 10, 2010 by piperguy

[GUARDLING]

I am completely amazed at this thread. We are not talking about a one-day or a single weekend conflict here, but weeks worth of corps rehearsals versus weeks worth of university course work. Both University and Drum Corps are major commitments; entities that require dedication, hard work, and consistency from the student for any level of success. Yes, some minor conflicts can normally be rectified through reasonable compromise (i.e. a Day or a Weekend). However, a quality university will require a student to adhere to attendance obligations; and a quality corps will do the same. Any professor or instructor that allows a breakdown on that demand is actually harming the student as well as damaging the reputation of the institution. For example, imagine a NASA engineer talking to an astronaut in which safety is involved and the engineer states that although he missed a lot of his undergraduate Math classes, his university professors let it slide so that he could win a gold medal at DCI Championships. Where did this Entitlement idea come from in which we can expect to do everything we want in life and then expect others to just give into when we want do them? That is Vanity. Quality, in all of its forms, takes sacrifice. Maybe university has to be put on hold; maybe DCI is something that has to be sacrificed. But when weeks worth of conflicts arise one has to take precedent. Otherwise, the best life-long interest of the student is sacrificed at one or both of the institutions. Just my thoughts.

OMG you are so right ! You should deal with some kids in winter guard ..they committ knowing they can't pay and then think they should be able to do drum corps, So many people think they are entitled, that they should be able to do it all. Maybe some can BUT if you can;t life is about choices and you cant have everything. Simply amazing.

[chaos001]

I am completely amazed at this thread. We are not talking about a one-day or a single weekend conflict here, but weeks worth of corps rehearsals versus weeks worth of university course work. Both University and Drum Corps are major commitments; entities that require dedication, hard work, and consistency from the student for any level of success. Yes, some minor conflicts can normally be rectified through reasonable compromise (i.e. a Day or a Weekend). However, a quality university will require a student to adhere to attendance obligations; and a quality corps will do the same. Any professor or instructor that allows a breakdown on that demand is actually harming the student as well as damaging the reputation of the institution. For example, imagine a NASA engineer talking to an astronaut in which safety is involved and the engineer states that although he missed a lot of his undergraduate Math classes, his university professors let it slide so that he could win a gold medal at DCI Championships. Where did this Entitlement idea come from in which we can expect to do everything we want in life and then expect others to just give into when we want do them? That is Vanity. Quality, in all of its forms, takes sacrifice. Maybe university has to be put on hold; maybe DCI is something that has to be sacrificed. But when weeks worth of conflicts arise one has to take precedent. Otherwise, the best life-long interest of the student is sacrificed at one or both of the institutions. Just my thoughts.

since the media/commercials/celeb-reality shows took over...add in the fact that the media is rearing most children these day instead of their parents. teach this generation for a while and you'll be scared for the future of the World.

[kauliflower]

Hmm, let me reiterate that, for the purposes of grades only, my home university GPA is preserved whilst I am attending UCI, contingent to whether I pass or fail. For the purposes of being a competent engineer upon graduation, yes, missing 3 weeks of lecture and tutorial attendance at a junior level is an issue. That said, my personal experience is that there is little which cannot be made up for by more diligent personal study at home. If this self-study is guided by a willing professor, then I would consider trading off 3 weeks of college attendance of move-ins.

This is probably a cultural difference also. My mum's belief is that attendance equates directly to education, and I KNOW that this is often not the case for me. In some cases, I can sit through a lecture and not come away with the key points I need to do fulfil the syllabus requirements. In that same time, I could have been working through problems on my own at home, getting an understanding of the content from first principles and reinforcing content from the textbook. It's got something to do with the lecturer's style, their knowledge of the syllabus content (not knocking their overall knowledge at all) and where I am up to with my own study. And I do hear that the lecturing professors in the States are much more on top of their game with a genuine interest in teaching their students - something which is sometimes lacking here in Australia - so I do realise that this potentially does not translate well across the cultural contexts. I'll have to see when I get there.

I feel as though we're going a bit off-topic, with broader comments on how to raise your child and the relevant consequences. Let's not go there. Yes, sometimes you can't get what you want despite all your efforts and hard work. That doesn't meant that trying to find a solution demonstrates an attitude of entitlement.

[perc2100]

I can't believe I'm actually reading that some of you advocate taking a lower college grade in order to make move-ins on time! Where are your priorities?! I am proudly a member of the "dinosaur" community, and as such, I understand how drum corps might seem to be the biggest priority in ones' young life. Unfortunately, the real world does not work this way. While drum corps was a major part of my youth and helped tremendously in developing a solid work ethic, I have found that how well one does in college has a much greater impact on future success than the growth one achieves from drum corps. For example, graduate schools for specific majors (IE. physical therapy) are getting extremely competitive. I have seen a prospective applicant get cut for as little as .05 of a grade point average. Future employers are much more likely to look at academic achievement before they even consider if you marched in a corps. They probably won't even know what a corps is.

My opinion, take it or leave it.....do the best you can in school first. If the corps is worth your time and effort, they must understand that education must come first.

FWIW, I think a lot of us are speaking from one adult to another and letting them know at least there are options. What the OP wants to do is obviously their own choice. If they can make their college schedule work so they can do BOTH a semester at a UC school and a summer of drum corps, then good for them. There are MANY factors in a good college education, and missing a few weeks of class (though not ideal) does not ultimately doom someone's education or future. If a college professor is fine with a student taking a final exam early, and if the student is confident that they will get the grade they want (and the education they want) while taking an early final, then what's the problem?

And yet ANOTHER instance of DCP posters believing that their idea/opinion of something must be the only correct one...