Why is Change a so bad?

[dcsnare93]

the changes pre 2003 were all brass percussion, color guard and drill.

every major change since then has altered that.

if you stick to the basics, it's fine. when fundamentally change that, it doesn't have appeal.

if you look at pro sports, while they make changes and tweaks, they keep the fundamentals.

and when you try and sell your change as to want to become something that isn't viewed as highly as drum corps is, it turns people off.

Agreed.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with change, but I cannot think of any other activity that constantly tries to redefine itself year after year.

[JimF-LowBari]

I cannot think of any other activity that constantly tries to redefine itself year after year.

And the year after year part has only started since 2000 or so. What the newer folks may not realize is that the other big changes like pits, 2 valves, 3 valves, etc did not occur one right after the other. There was a at least a few year gap in between so DCI, the corps, fans, etc had a chance to adjust.

I didn't follow corps form 92-02 and since I came back DCI just comes across as "OK... we made our big change for this year... whadda we gonna do net year... uh-huh, uh-huh"

[BRASSO]

This has has been said a thousand times before, but apparently STILL needs repeating :

The overwhelming vast majority of Drum Corps fans that object to the changes that have taken place are not opposed to ANY changes. It is the DEGREE and SCOPE of the changes that are so transformational ( some might say " radical ") that it has altered the very fabric and appearance of the activity, to the point that some argue it is unidentifiable any longer.

Most are not opposed to "change " per se. Change is inevitable anyway, as time does not stand still.

But have these transformational changes lend to growth of the activity in terms of number of Corps... fans ?

You tell me.

[Scottishfan]

I think you hit the nail on the hit. When we become fans of things (sports, movie directors, technology, TV shows, etc) we become complacent and happy with what we have grown accustomed to. For example, when I was in high school and Green Day was relatively 'new' to the national music scene, I LOVED the simplicity of their song writing: the songs were simple musical structure-wise, and the lyrics were simple (almost cliched), dealing with teenage angst and lost-love. When Green Day made the "switch" to the 'punk opera' stuff w/American Idiot and their most recent 21st Century Breakdown, I at first scoffed at what I perceived to be a heavy-handed pretension to the songs. I wrote it off and stopped listening to their new stuff: choosing instead to focus on the old stuff that I was "comfortable" with and I had liked since the early 90's. But I kind of got over that around the time 21st Century Break Down came out, when I heard them play SNL and REALLY got into a song (21 Guns). I revisited their 'punk opera' material with a more open mind, convinced myself that the band has obviously 'grown up' and matured, changed their interests a bit which changed their writing style, and just took the music at face value for what it was: slightly intricate pop-punk with decent lyrics, great hooks, and innovative for their genre of music. I've really gotten into those two albums and have developed a nice balance between their older stuff and their current stuff. I've let go of my bias and sentimentality of their older stuff (though when I listen to, say, Kerplunk or their earlier EP's like 1000 Hours I still get a smile and remember the good ol' days) and appreciate their current stuff. In fact, I appreciate their new stuff even more knowing where they've come from and how they've changed.

Honestly, the same happened with drum corps. I grew up as a drum corps fan in the late 80's-mid 90's, and TOTALLY cherish shows from, say, 1987-1996 (as well as earlier 80's stuff). I marched in 1997 and 1998 and then the more 'radical' changes of my existence started happening: first there was any-key brass. That REALLY annoyed me (even though I'm a percussionist), and when I moved cross-country summer of 1999 I missed most shows and stopped caring a lot about the activity. When things changed more and more in the early/mid-00's, I stopped following drum corps. Then my job changed from teaching middle school to high school, and I started following drum corps merely as a way of seeing what the current trends are. I started noticing the amount of demand being executed pretty well, and the incredible quality of sound that the average horn line has now vs. when I marched. I realized that I could indeed embrace and appreciate what I like about drum corps, and set aside my differences and "reconcile" what I don't like. I realized that 'my time,' my era of drum corps is long passed, and I owed it to the current generation/era of corps to at least give it a chance.

Once I did that, essential got over the biases and beliefs of my era of marching, I was able to appreciate the activity and what the current crop of members and designers have to offer. There is still plenty I don't like as far as show designs (that was always the case, to be honest), but there is even more to appreciate and like (and sometimes downright love). For me it was easy and just not focusing on things that bug me, and instead focus on things I like. I can usually do that with everyone, though there are some shows that don't do much for me at all (when I watch them on the live feeds they're typically my 'get up and stretch, talk with friends, etc' and the shows are merely background white noise): again, that's really no different that the 80's or 90's. I also realized that drum corps is constantly evolving. What I considered the 'golden era' of drum corps, generations before me despised for its deviation from what they considered 'real' drum corps. What someone who ages out in 2005 considers 'real drum corps' is going to be drastically different from what the activity looks like in 2018, I imagine. The activity changes regardless, and we can either stick around and find things to like, or go away and find other hobbies.

I may not agree with all of the changes, but it was a pleasure to read such a well thought out and sensible post.

[SPINCYCLE]

And the year after year part has only started since 2000 or so. What the newer folks may not realize is that the other big changes like pits, 2 valves, 3 valves, etc did not occur one right after the other. There was a at least a few year gap in between so DCI, the corps, fans, etc had a chance to adjust.

I didn't follow corps form 92-02 and since I came back DCI just comes across as "OK... we made our big change for this year... whadda we gonna do net year... uh-huh, uh-huh"

So what Im hearing is give me change just not alot..hmmmm

[Jeff Ream]

drum corps changed a lot from 1972-2002 without needing any of the stuff added post amps...and did well

So what Im hearing is give me change just not alot..hmmmm

[Scoutnout]

This may warrent its own thread BUT ........................We talk on here about tradition...old verses new brass vs woods..so on and so on, maybe we need to address what the members of TODAY need and maybe want. Not that i think kids should be consulted on such issues AT ALL but have directors looked at the big picture . Do we on DCP forget what we wanted or needed. Todays member can be very different with very different needs and wants as far as the activity is concerned, MAybe the changes taking place are to service todays youth not yesterdays . Just a thought

[Kamarag]

drum corps changed a lot from 1972-2002 without needing any of the stuff added post amps...and did well

Pre amps? Valve/rotor to 2-valve, 3-valve, any-key, grounding of pit, shorter shows, seemingly unending realignment of lower divisions, restrictions on divisions, alterations of the judging system (some major, some minor), amplification. I bet I missed a few as well.

Post amps? One major change, electronic instruments.

I don't think too many people would argue that 2009 wasn't a really good year for drum corps. Drum corps hasn't fundamentally changed. It's still brass and percussion (and guard, for that matter, which seems to be overlooked in these conversations). It just has some cool extra stuff that corps can use or not use.

[Jeff Ream]

except John, that which you call cool extra stuff is polarizing the paying customer more and more.

so maybe kids want that...but if fewer and fewer people want to pay to see it, who wins?

[perc2100]

So what Im hearing is give me change just not alot..hmmmm

Or, what I'm reading: give me subtle change, just nothing too radical (IMO).

Personally, I honestly believe that when I first got into drum corps, it was the gold standard in the marching music arts. Meaning that drum corps set the standard and trends, and marching bands followed. There was a time in the late 90's-mid-00's that I honestly think the opposite was true: marching bands set the trends and drum corps followed. That obviously wasn't the case with everyone, but that appeared to be the trend in my opinion. If we want to throw in WGI, there was a time not too long ago I would put the pecking order somewhere around:

* WGI IW

* WGI PIW

* BOA top 5

* DCI top 5

I feel the changes DCI has made the last decade or so is finally catching them up with the rest of the marching arts world: synths have been integral in WGI and BOA for at least 10-15 years prior by the time DCI finally allowed them. I still think for the most part DCI is well behind WGI in terms of design trends, but they're catching up to the top BOA shows. I know that for many people, this is disheartening because they want DCI to live in the bubble that they personally believe is the gold standard of the activity: heck, up until about five years ago I was right there with them. But when the same instructors are designing for the different mediums, and you arguably have the best talent in the world at your disposal over the summer (at least with, say, the Top 5 or so), it has got to be frustrating to have your hands tied with DCI, when they're so much more free in WGI: especially when it's the same colleagues judging/designing.

Of course the argument becomes "when is enough enough:" when do the fundamentals of drum and bugle corps (news flash: we haven't had bugles in decades, and three, or two, or even one valve G trumpets are not really bugles) cross the subtle grey line into marching band? I honestly think woodwinds are quite a bit off for the most part, as others have said (others who are on staff with drum corps and participate in winter meetings) there is little support for the change and the logistics of adding woodwinds are daunting (news flash: while not played, the Bluecoats had a line of saxes sometime in the 90's that the guard used as props, so woodwinds have already made an appearance at DCI Championships. I know holding them and actually playing them are two different things, but they've been on the field before). I can see, maybe, allowing them MAYBE as some kind of solo effect: say, adding a solo oboe for a phrase or two played in the pit. But anyone who's taught marching band before knows the never-ending headache of maintaining woodwind instruments in adverse conditions, having to deal with 'my reed broke and we're at the starting gate,' or having to tune a solo woodwind instrument a dozen times between final warm-up and show start to help insure that the instrument is almost in tune enough to not annoy. I can't imagine any music staffer wants to be in charge of that set of issues (news flash: nearly all of the music staffers on a drum corps staff are either percussion and brass players). I would be shocked if woodwinds ever got enough votes in the near future, at least.

Anyway, I think if we were to define the true "fundamentals" of the activity, you can substitute any instrument or design aspect for something else, and the basic ideals still apply. Arguing "it changed when the pit instrument starting coming out of speaker" is REALLY arguing semantics, IMO, as the 'real' ideals of drum corps involve the camaraderie of corpse membership, working as a group to achieve one overall goal, the best of times/worst of times, family, friendship, learning from the best instructors in the world, performing for thousands of people, putting on a uniform that represents generations of performers that sometimes stretch far before you were born but are now part of 'your' lively hood, etc. I honestly see design trends, instrumentation, etc. as "bells and whistles" of the activity: the things that get kids in the door and excited to be a part of it. That will be never-changing, just as pop culture trends are always changing. But once you get past that stuff the ideals I named above are truly what define are activity: not narration, or synth chords.