Jump to content

Why is Change a so bad?


Recommended Posts

This may warrent its own thread BUT ........................We talk on here about tradition...old verses new brass vs woods..so on and so on, maybe we need to address what the members of TODAY need and maybe want. Not that i think kids should be consulted on such issues AT ALL but have directors looked at the big picture . Do we on DCP forget what we wanted or needed. Todays member can be very different with very different needs and wants as far as the activity is concerned, MAybe the changes taking place are to service todays youth not yesterdays . Just a thought

The changes that concern me are the ones that add more voices/items/toys to a corps budget. Even if the economy was in better shape, the cost of putting a corps on the field and on the road is backbreaking. Even if this years latest "thingee" cost is a fraction of the total budget, it's still ADDING to the total cost. Just keep adding a little bit, little bit more, little bit more and OH #### just a bit too much and the crap hits the fan. That I do NOT see being good for youth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 130
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

If there is one thing I've learned as I've approached old age, is that drum corps fans will never be able to agree on anything, and ultimately this will end the activity as we know it. Not that this is a bad thing, I just think that we are coming to the end of what we all know as "Drum and Bugle Corps". The activity is not for me anymore, and that's OK I guess. I have my memories. I probably won't support it as much as I did, and that's OK too, as someone else will take my place. I personally think that "drum corps" has about 3-5 years left before we drop the name completely, and I think the time has come. The product on the field today is the furthest from drum corps that we've been in years. And no matter how much we would like to take it back to where it once was, it will never happen. And that's OK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think sometimes change just leaves some people behind and that can be scary if what you know is suddenly obsolete. Just a thought. :rolleyes:

Curmudgeon alert: I think sometimes people who are insecure will attribute fear as a motivation for people who simply don't like what they like. Just a thought :tongue:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Curmudgeon alert: I think sometimes people who are insecure will attribute fear as a motivation for people who simply don't like what they like. Just a thought :rolleyes:

Cynic alert: And sometimes people will demean the opinion or personality of someone they disagree with. It's so much easier on the ego than admitting to themselves that the other person might have a valid point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO these are the real ideals of drum corps:

Football and basketball and baseball all draw on the same sort of ideals--it's the fundamentals that separate them, such as the ball used, the way play proceeds, how a team scores, and so forth. What you described can apply to pee wee hockey, little league, and a host of other activities. It's the fundamentals of drum corps that makes the activity different than pee wee hockey--things such as playing brass and percussion instruments.

The fundamentals of drum corps also serve to separate it from marching band and brass band and pipe band and fife & drum corps and so on.

So, please, explain what you see as the fundamentals of drum corps, and not the ideals that drum corps shares with a multitude of other activities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ive read so many debates on change on DCP. All the arguments from older fans, newer fans and everthing in between. Why is change considered so bad? The biggest argument I hear is " WELL IT"S NOT DRUM CORPS" SO then I ask " WELL DIDN"T DRUM CORPS CHANGE FROM THE 40s to the 50s to the 60's so on and so on? Then I get the answer " WELL IT DIDN"T CHANGE IT"S FORMAT OR WHAT IT BASICALLY IS" . Now depending who you talk to even letting females in an all male corps was travesty back then and people left their corps and vowed never to return. Same happened with theme and theatrics. Is what makes it drum corps just brass? hmmmmmm if people say yes I just ask why?

I think sometimes change just leaves some people behind and that can be scary if what you know is suddenly obsolete. Just a thought. :rolleyes:

Only stupid changes are bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To mirror a lot of the posts here, change is bad when it's quickly and drastically applied against the popular opinion of the masses. An example I like is the Ohio State University Marching Band. The band was formed in 1878 as a fife and drum corps. It became a standard marching band shortly after, and by the early 1900 was put under control of the ROTC program. By 1934, woodwind instruments were removed from the band, making it all brass. In 1936, they started doing the trademark Script Ohio. In 1940, trombones were replaced by valved trombonium horns. The next changes occurred in the 1960s when more popular music, instead of traditional marches started to be played. Then in the 1970s, women were allowed, as well as a large expansion of the band. The uniforms changed very little until the 1980s, when color highlights were added. Trombones were re-added in the 1980s. In the late 1990s, the Eb alto horns were replaced by F mellophones, and bass trombones were added to the trombone line. In 2006, the bass drum line was upgraded from two tone to four tone basses.

The band still wears the same style uniform, without major changes, has the same basic instrumentation, and still does not have a full time pit or color guard/drill team.

These changes were hard to make because of the alumni, who have to vote on all changes to the band. These alumni know what tradition is and how to keep things new while still maintaining the same basic style.

Going back to drum corps: I feel that changes can be made to some point before it no longer is drum corps. That line was crossed years ago though. The name of the activity is Drum and Bugle Corps. Drums are percussion, pit equipment includes drums and pitched percussion. Since it is a form of percussion, it's ok to me. I personally don't know much about guard activities, but it adds to the show on the field and is a vital part of the entire show atmosphere. Bugle, in the drum corps definition, is a morphing term. A dictionary will tell you a bugle is a brass instrument with no valves. In the drum corps perspective, it became a brass instrument with a conical bore in the key of G, or Bb in the case of some of the Canadian corps. When the change to any key occurred, bugles, the other fundamental half of the activity, ceased to exist. Sure, in corps themselves, you still have the terms soprano, contra, etc. However, trumpets and marching tubas are not sopranos and contras in the traditional respect. As such, drum corps even with Bb horns are drum and marching brass ensembles. Now with electronics, which have, in my opinion, no use, and woodwinds, which are not sturdy, stable, or loud enough in small numbers to be useful on a marching field, the entire fabric of the activity has changed. I've been to a few marching band competitions with some very good clarinet and saxophone lines, but their numbers were equal or greater than that of the brass. Either brass numbers are going to have to be cut, or more spots will need to be added.

Either way, DCI is a great place for young men and women to expand their talents and abilities, and to do what they thought might be impossible. However, care must, and should have been taken to make sure the past was not forgotten. These days, Drum, Wind, & Electronics Corps are nothing what they used to be. I didn't like the change to Bb, but I can live with that - it's still brass. Woodwinds and electronics are just a step too far. Next step is probably a merger with Bands of America. Then you can have two different championships: the school based Autumn championships and the summer touring championships. Opening up a BOA/DCI merger would mean some high schools could, in fact start competitive touring shows all summer long instead of just during their Autumn season. Whether that's a good idea or not is not my place. Conversely, it also opens up current and future drum corps being based out of schools, allowing for facility use without huge rental fees or whatnot.

So, with all that, change = ok in small doses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ive read so many debates on change on DCP. All the arguments from older fans, newer fans and everthing in between. Why is change considered so bad? The biggest argument I hear is " WELL IT"S NOT DRUM CORPS" SO then I ask " WELL DIDN"T DRUM CORPS CHANGE FROM THE 40s to the 50s to the 60's so on and so on? Then I get the answer " WELL IT DIDN"T CHANGE IT"S FORMAT OR WHAT IT BASICALLY IS" . Now depending who you talk to even letting females in an all male corps was travesty back then and people left their corps and vowed never to return. Same happened with theme and theatrics. Is what makes it drum corps just brass? hmmmmmm if people say yes I just ask why?

I think sometimes change just leaves some people behind and that can be scary if what you know is suddenly obsolete. Just a thought. :rolleyes:

You hear 'Well before change x it was just this or that"...whatever 'change x' is. IMO totally ridiculous. "Before they allowed valves it was just valveless horns." "Before they allowed multi-key it was just G". "Before they allowed timpani to be grounded it was just marching timpani." "Before they allowed corps to start their show on the field it was just coming in from off the field." etc...etc...etc....

I think this is right on the money. Heck, when I started marching in 1964 all we had were snares, single tenors, a straight bass and cymbals. G/D single valve horns with slip slides. Guards that marched around at right shoulder the entire show. Drills consisting of squad moves all over the place. Fast forward to the amazing shows and performers of today...it constantly amazes me at how talented both performers and staffs are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To mirror a lot of the posts here, change is bad when it's quickly and drastically applied against the popular opinion of the masses. An example I like is the Ohio State University Marching Band. The band was formed in 1878 as a fife and drum corps. It became a standard marching band shortly after, and by the early 1900 was put under control of the ROTC program. By 1934, woodwind instruments were removed from the band, making it all brass. In 1936, they started doing the trademark Script Ohio. In 1940, trombones were replaced by valved trombonium horns. The next changes occurred in the 1960s when more popular music, instead of traditional marches started to be played. Then in the 1970s, women were allowed, as well as a large expansion of the band. The uniforms changed very little until the 1980s, when color highlights were added. Trombones were re-added in the 1980s. In the late 1990s, the Eb alto horns were replaced by F mellophones, and bass trombones were added to the trombone line. In 2006, the bass drum line was upgraded from two tone to four tone basses.

The band still wears the same style uniform, without major changes, has the same basic instrumentation, and still does not have a full time pit or color guard/drill team.

These changes were hard to make because of the alumni, who have to vote on all changes to the band. These alumni know what tradition is and how to keep things new while still maintaining the same basic style.

Going back to drum corps: I feel that changes can be made to some point before it no longer is drum corps. That line was crossed years ago though. The name of the activity is Drum and Bugle Corps. Drums are percussion, pit equipment includes drums and pitched percussion. Since it is a form of percussion, it's ok to me. I personally don't know much about guard activities, but it adds to the show on the field and is a vital part of the entire show atmosphere. Bugle, in the drum corps definition, is a morphing term. A dictionary will tell you a bugle is a brass instrument with no valves. In the drum corps perspective, it became a brass instrument with a conical bore in the key of G, or Bb in the case of some of the Canadian corps. When the change to any key occurred, bugles, the other fundamental half of the activity, ceased to exist. Sure, in corps themselves, you still have the terms soprano, contra, etc. However, trumpets and marching tubas are not sopranos and contras in the traditional respect. As such, drum corps even with Bb horns are drum and marching brass ensembles. Now with electronics, which have, in my opinion, no use, and woodwinds, which are not sturdy, stable, or loud enough in small numbers to be useful on a marching field, the entire fabric of the activity has changed. I've been to a few marching band competitions with some very good clarinet and saxophone lines, but their numbers were equal or greater than that of the brass. Either brass numbers are going to have to be cut, or more spots will need to be added.

Either way, DCI is a great place for young men and women to expand their talents and abilities, and to do what they thought might be impossible. However, care must, and should have been taken to make sure the past was not forgotten. These days, Drum, Wind, & Electronics Corps are nothing what they used to be. I didn't like the change to Bb, but I can live with that - it's still brass. Woodwinds and electronics are just a step too far. Next step is probably a merger with Bands of America. Then you can have two different championships: the school based Autumn championships and the summer touring championships. Opening up a BOA/DCI merger would mean some high schools could, in fact start competitive touring shows all summer long instead of just during their Autumn season. Whether that's a good idea or not is not my place. Conversely, it also opens up current and future drum corps being based out of schools, allowing for facility use without huge rental fees or whatnot.

So, with all that, change = ok in small doses.

AHHHHHHHH...a ffew interesting points here

1 Woodwinds came before brass? interesting

2 We have to wait 150 years for more than a few changes or progression?

3 Do the people of yesteryear including myself all have to be dead for it to be ok to have CHANGE?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You hear 'Well before change x it was just this or that"...whatever 'change x' is. IMO totally ridiculous. "Before they allowed valves it was just valveless horns." "Before they allowed multi-key it was just G". "Before they allowed timpani to be grounded it was just marching timpani." "Before they allowed corps to start their show on the field it was just coming in from off the field." etc...etc...etc....

I think this is right on the money. Heck, when I started marching in 1964 all we had were snares, single tenors, a straight bass and cymbals. G/D single valve horns with slip slides. Guards that marched around at right shoulder the entire show. Drills consisting of squad moves all over the place. Fast forward to the amazing shows and performers of today...it constantly amazes me at how talented both performers and staffs are.

I have said I personally dont like the sound of woodwinds on the field nor amps for that matter BUT I dont think I should be telling another person whats good or bad. It's only an opinion and yes we are allowed those but to say I will Boo. I wont buy. I wont support. I say to those people GOOD BYE.and lets just see how powerful you are in this. Maybe you are , then you will get what you want but I kind of think as people have tested this in the past you will be the only one loosing out. Also don't blame lack of attendance on music choice, thats total crap, if thats the reason then how do you know this unless you went..watched or listened somehow......if you are staying away and that is you conviction then do it!

Just my opinion and thank you for listening.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...