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Why is Change a so bad?


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No, it doesn't. You're trying to make a correlation between use of electronics and competitive success that simply isn't there. I'm not saying corps should or shouldn't use electronics, but the fact that most corps do isn't proof you HAVE to, no matter what Fiedler said.

It is not "most corps"....it's every single world-class corps, the first year the instruments were allowed.

Look, we've already established that corps aren't credited for good use of electronics, and aren't held accountable for bad use.

Cite your source. I don't recall where judges were ever instructed to ignore electronics when giving credit.

Conversely, though....when amps were introduced, an order went out to judges to give credit for what they felt was good, while suspending judgment on any problems "temporarily" while the bugs were being worked out. No one has ever said when (or if) this practice ever ended.

You're assuming that a judge sees a synth in the pit and give them some sort of bonus points? Is there some check-box on the sheets I'm not aware of that says only corps with electronics can get a max score? If so, which caption is that in?

Well, ensemble music has a criterion on the sheet calling for corps to "demonstrate the musical appropriateness of amplification". Haven't looked at the 2009 sheets to see how electronic instruments are dealt with....but given the mid-season haste in which the few remaining non-conformists threw assorted electronic instruments into their shows, I have no doubt that there's a common perception that competing without them would be akin to having one arm tied behind your back.

What you are suggesting is a much larger conspiracy. I know a lot of DCI judges personally, and I refuse to believe that they have been told to only reward corps with certain equipment. For them to even consider doing so goes against every educational belief I was brought up with.

It's not a "conspiracy". You must admit, though, that there is a certain degree of pressure on judges to conform. Corps directors and staff do not want to spend all season working toward the consensus of most judges, just to have one nonconformist judge tank their show at some critical contest. A judge whose own beliefs and opinions buck "conventional wisdom" will be weeded out of the DCI judging community, simply out of a desire for consistency in judging.

Consensus among judges sounds like a good thing in general. One by-product of that ideal, though, is that the judging community tends to have a consensus on which musical equipment "options" are best.

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In all honesty, drum corps is obsolete to almost all of the world. Change is necessary for this dying activity to have a chance at surviving. I can't believe people on here are really looking up the definition for bugle, just to prove that its not technically "drum and bugle corps." Seriously? Get over yourself - no one cares. Drum Corps is 1000 % better than it was 20 years ago - the show experience is better, the instruments are better, and the corps perform on a much higher level. Many changes have taken place since 20 years ago, and they are all for the better. This activity has evolved, and will continue to evolve - get over it and stop #####ing.

I'm confused....if recent changes have made drum corps so much "better", why is it "dying"?

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Ive read so many debates on change on DCP. All the arguments from older fans, newer fans and everthing in between. Why is change considered so bad? The biggest argument I hear is " WELL IT"S NOT DRUM CORPS" SO then I ask " WELL DIDN"T DRUM CORPS CHANGE FROM THE 40s to the 50s to the 60's so on and so on? Then I get the answer " WELL IT DIDN"T CHANGE IT"S FORMAT OR WHAT IT BASICALLY IS" . Now depending who you talk to even letting females in an all male corps was travesty back then and people left their corps and vowed never to return. Same happened with theme and theatrics. Is what makes it drum corps just brass? hmmmmmm if people say yes I just ask why?

I think sometimes change just leaves some people behind and that can be scary if what you know is suddenly obsolete. Just a thought. :rolleyes:

I think that is insulting BS quite frankly. People know what they like, period. I prefer the sound of an all brass hornline to one that has woodwinds. It's a preference, plain and simple.

What I just don't understand about the people who voted for this is why the unique aspects of drum corps are not important to them. What will be gained by taking an activity, that has has held on to some very basic fundamentals throughout 60+ years of changes, and turning it into another activity that already exists?

The proposal to make woodwinds legal throughout the entire show is coming, count on it. The integrity of all things drum corps will hang in the balance with that vote, because if woodwinds are finally allowed on the field of compettition, the drum corps has ceased to exist, and has made a complete transition to marching band. I'm not debating which is better, just saying it would be a tremendous shame to lose something like drum corps.

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I think that is insulting BS quite frankly. People know what they like, period. I prefer the sound of an all brass hornline to one that has woodwinds. It's a preference, plain and simple.

What I just don't understand about the people who voted for this is why the unique aspects of drum corps are not important to them. What will be gained by taking an activity, that has has held on to some very basic fundamentals throughout 60+ years of changes, and turning it into another activity that already exists?

The proposal to make woodwinds legal throughout the entire show is coming, count on it. The integrity of all things drum corps will hang in the balance with that vote, because if woodwinds are finally allowed on the field of compettition, the drum corps has ceased to exist, and has made a complete transition to marching band. I'm not debating which is better, just saying it would be a tremendous shame to lose something like drum corps.

Some excellent points, BozzlyB!

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I think that is insulting BS quite frankly. People know what they like, period. I prefer the sound of an all brass hornline to one that has woodwinds. It's a preference, plain and simple.

What I just don't understand about the people who voted for this is why the unique aspects of drum corps are not important to them. What will be gained by taking an activity, that has has held on to some very basic fundamentals throughout 60+ years of changes, and turning it into another activity that already exists?

The proposal to make woodwinds legal throughout the entire show is coming, count on it. The integrity of all things drum corps will hang in the balance with that vote, because if woodwinds are finally allowed on the field of compettition, the drum corps has ceased to exist, and has made a complete transition to marching band. I'm not debating which is better, just saying it would be a tremendous shame to lose something like drum corps.

Good points but the same can be said about mulit key brass, amps, electronics...

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Good points but the same can be said about mulit key brass, amps, electronics...

I disagree, those things do not inherently change the sound of what is coming from the marching hornline that is playing all brass.

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What I just don't understand about the people who voted for this is why the unique aspects of drum corps are not important to them. What will be gained by taking an activity, that has has held on to some very basic fundamentals throughout 60+ years of changes, and turning it into another activity that already exists?

This is the crux of the issue for everything involving adding new instrumentation to drum corps. I believe that any key brass pretty much stayed within the all brass and percussion paradigm that sets drum corps apart from full marching band, but most anything else since DOES move drum corps towards something else that already exists, putting its own uniqueness (and possibly attraction) at jeopardy.

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I disagree, those things do not inherently change the sound of what is coming from the marching hornline that is playing all brass.

How can a synth imitading a woodwind not change the sound but a real woodwind can?

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In all honesty, drum corps is obsolete to almost all of the world. Change is necessary for this dying activity to have a chance at surviving. I can't believe people on here are really looking up the definition for bugle, just to prove that its not technically "drum and bugle corps." Seriously? Get over yourself - no one cares. Drum Corps is 1000 % better than it was 20 years ago - the show experience is better, the instruments are better, and the corps perform on a much higher level. Many changes have taken place since 20 years ago, and they are all for the better. This activity has evolved, and will continue to evolve - get over it and stop #####ing.

yet there's fewer corps and fewer fans...so is it better?

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You won't have to wait very long. Madison is doing exactly that this summer.

Sounds promising. When I watched QF and they cracked into the top 12 a couple of years ago, I liked the fact they were hungry and performed as well as they humanly could with as much passion as they coupld pull out of themselves and their program. It got them past the Crossmen in QF and then into the finals slot.

And really, with all the talk about "Old" vs. "New"... I'd say '08 PR was a great blend- A real watershed program. Hopefully things progress more in that direction. We didn't have the Conductors and Spartacus wearing headsets mulling over their motivations and thoughts aloud to the audience to convey the story. :wink

And as for miking, I also liked the Tabla section of the Coats show. Some of us old cranks also happen to like music of different cultures and it was well-framed and used to intro and set up the rest of the segment. The Coats seem to have a way of using it without it appearing preachy or obtrusive.

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