Who will blink first - G7 or S(sweet)16?

[audiodb]

Most importantly, the corporate sponsorship money WILL follow them. Sponsors want to be identified with the best of the best. Right now, the G-7 is that.

But two years after leaving DCI, they would no longer have that frame of reference.

Besides that....there is no law against sponsors supporting both the G7 and DCI after a split.

There are two pressing concerns for the G-7 right now. One, how do they exist without the split of the gate from the current DCI schedule? Two, do they have the ability to attract 12-18 paying event sponsors (local host organizations) who can risk their "cost of show" requirements, and still believe they (local sponsors) can make a profit?

Actually, I don't think the G7 want event partners. Their proposal speaks of moving away from that towards having corps run all the shows (and make all the money). Reality, though, will be more like you say, as they will need more events than they are ready to sponsor themselves at first.

I believe the G-7's vision of where this activity needs to be (as seen by its market) is correct. They likely can put together a show format that works quite well. The initial years, however, will be very lean.

I think you have this part exactly backwards. The G7 vision is incorrect, and the initial two years would be the best ones for the G7 (with their residual status as "top corps"). Any years after that would see revenue falling off.

[garfield]

G7: Because we need to change the DCI structure. DCI cost $2million to run the organization and we can do it for a fraction of that. Dan A has not been effective for several years and we didn't renew his contract as a result. The BOD majority restructured the voting members and, subsequently, reinstated Dan A.

This is the one that surprises me the most, as it's a "plank" contention of the G7.

Can ANYONE who's looked at the 990 on www.guidestar.com verify that, as of 2008, that administrative costs total $2million, or 20% of DCIs budget?

I sure can't, and I know my way around a balance sheet, tax-exempt or otherwise.

Edited June 8, 2010 by garfield

[Fran Haring]

I envision a successful indoor spectacle involving groups of just 80 performers per unit. I envision them sharing most of the "bells and whistle" paraphernalia, electronics, special effects, etc. and all the tractor trailers that moves such from place to place.

Look, the G-7 groups can probably present 2 touring companies each. That makes their vision even more doable.

Well....I'm not Brasso, but I'd like to respond, Fred.

I agree with a good deal of what you have to say on this whole subject.... but I still wonder about the costs of such an endeavour, even with the G7 groups "sharing" the touring costs that you outlined.

In particular.... if the show is to be at the highest level of professional production available, that will cost a good deal of cash... especially if unions are involved. Depending on the venue, it might not be easy... or possible at all... to run a non-union event.

On the BLAST! subject, I agree with you on this part.... the BLAST! concept worked VERY well. Sold a whole bunch of tickets, on Broadway and during the various nationwide/worldwide tours.

But.... one key reason I think BLAST! was so successful was because the show was designed for a general audience... not just for "drum corps nuts" or "band geeks." The G7 concept, at least from what I understand, would not focus on a general audience, but on a rather specific audience..... the scholastic (high school and college) band market. I certainly can understand why that would be the target market.... but I'm not sure that will sell enough tickets, long-term, to remain viable. I can't predict the future... no one can.... but this is my opinion.

(Yes, I know BLAST! eventually closed on Broadway, so it is no longer "viable" in that sense. But it had a great run.... longer than many other Broadway shows over the years. Plus a Tony Award as the icing on the cake.)

Edited June 8, 2010 by Fran Haring

[GMichael1230]

I'm sure we'll get a few "very special" shows in 2011, and, 'long about 2013 or so, we'll see another proposal to change DCI again.

After all, the "Center Group" proposal from 2006 that had the ideas of making II/III one division and so on (a proposal that had Dan Acheson as part of its "ad hoc") is a direct precursor to what we have before us now.

We'll see Gibbs, Fiedler, Hop and others want to tweak things again.

but, where will corps like Crown, Bluecoats, Phantom, ...er, anyone, be competitively by 2013 ? Top 7 by then could look alot different......theres change-a-comin' but it aint in the form of the G-7 breaking away.......

Blue Stars, Boston Crusaders, Madison Scouts, Troopers, Blue Knights, Glassmen, Colts, Spirit...are not gonna just fade away..and you know what ? Step back and think how rude, and disgusting these 7 ego-driven units think they are in a seperate class from the corps I just listed......the top 12 is the elite, and the 13 - 21 are the other world class corps.....how unbeleiveable that these 7 want to break away and risk the destruction of the activity and the demise of these other long time, succesful, storied units.....

G

[GMichael1230]

The other guys should stand strong...

I would say that at least 80% of the Greedy7 "brand power" comes from being at the top of DCI. People want to compete in DCI. If they break off with no support from DCI, they are going to go downhill quickly. How are they going to market their shows? Do you think people are going to flock to audition for the Bluecoats so they can finish in last place?

...and not all of the have as much money as you would think.....and Im pretty sure DCI has at least partial ownership or licwnsing deals with the "names" of these greedy-7, so even if they break off, they will still be feeding DCI money while not having enough to expand and grow their cirque-de-schlock !

G

[GMichael1230]

Everyone seems to think that 7 MAJOR corps can't change things the way they want. Let me 1st say theres alot about the G7 type of show I hate but to think these 7 cant change things or do damage to others is so wrong.

I dont care about how different it was in 72 or how you cant compare. YES you can, a very small # OF CORPS decided it was time to change drastically and YES money was also a motivator back then . These few that started DCI managed to start a wonderful thing in our activity BUT for many reasons also played a part in the dimise of not 2 or 3 or even 10 corps but hundreds of corps. There were some states with 20 or 30 corps in it. YES corps couldnt take on the new format back then especially to travel BUT isnt that the same? DCI when formed, formed what we know and left alot behind.

All I am saying and not challenging young or old is that dont under estimate what a small # of MAJOR players can do.

Corps banned together back then also and said alot of what people are saying now. Look whos here in 2010 and whos not.

When DCi was formed back in 72, there were over hundreds of corps that benefited form that decision, there were loads of fans and tons of "blood" to sustain and grow the new model..there is no such animal in 2010..its clearly this is all about greed no matter how much you disagree, it is NOT about giving kids opportunity to march drum corps and fans to witness the best "drum corps" in the world.....its a niche group of a niche activity that simply will not generate enough interst or money to sustain and grow, and none of them have the insight or brains to create and grow such a model..I mean, look at the proposal and previous decisions..I rest my case.

G

[GMichael1230]

The issue that the G7 can't do what they propose without DCI is ludicris.(sic) The Cadets run an entire high school band association (USSBA) and its very well run and to me 1-2 steps away from being able to run DCI. We all know how smart Mr. Hopkins is and he's not one to go into something unprepared. You don't think he doesn't have access to thousands of band directors who may or may not be ###### at DCI and go to them with a better offer. Its cost 10,000 up front to host a show. I'm sure it can be done cheaper.

Think about having 7 of SOME of the best known corps in shows throughout the country. ONly the larger HS staduims would be able to hold the crowds. I definitely see better marketing especially from Hopkins.

As much as I hate to say it, they have a better then average chance of succeeding or going on thier own. The only thing that could stop them is loyality to the DCI brand.

None of this could be further from the truth. Cadets are not anywhere near finacially comfortable as you think. ALot of their support also comes from alumni, alot fo which will cease to continue to donate to something that is foreigh and alien and nothinglike what they were once a part of.

Two - to - three of the other Greedy-7 are in worse shape financially than the Cadets. To market seven super groups performing their cirque-de-schlock, night after night wont work...why ? Again I repeat, as always...this activity is built on COMPETITION..these seven got where they are by competing and beating other corps...taking seven groups or marching music out on the road, where is the draw ?? You seee it once, twice, its over...theres no payoff for the crowd, theres no payoff for the performer....the reasons that those join drum corps are no longer a part of the Greedy-7, its like seven castrated "Gods" woth no world to conquer or Godesses to "satisfy, or dragons to slay, they will turn into the type of stars that implode on themselves, they will not grow or expand.....

G

[Liahona]

but, where will corps like Crown, Bluecoats, Phantom, ...er, anyone, be competitively by 2013 ? Top 7 by then could look alot different......theres change-a-comin' but it aint in the form of the G-7 breaking away.......

Blue Stars, Boston Crusaders, Madison Scouts, Troopers, Blue Knights, Glassmen, Colts, Spirit...are not gonna just fade away..and you know what ? Step back and think how rude, and disgusting these 7 ego-driven units think they are in a seperate class from the corps I just listed......the top 12 is the elite, and the 13 - 21 are the other world class corps.....how unbeleiveable that these 7 want to break away and risk the destruction of the activity and the demise of these other long time, succesful, storied units.....

G

As I've already stated my strong oposition against the proposal on many levels....I see you mention here "the top 12 is the elite". I agree with that statement. Do you think that things would have been better swallowed if the current "Top 12" had basically presented a similiar proposal and shunned the other 17-21 and open class groups? I think even with that extra inclusioin ala G12 it probably still would have fallen flat on its face in public opinion perhaps ?

[GMichael1230]

As I've already stated my strong oposition against the proposal on many levels....I see you mention here "the top 12 is the elite". I agree with that statement. Do you think that things would have been better swallowed if the current "Top 12" had basically presented a similiar proposal and shunned the other 17-21 and open class groups? I think even with that extra inclusioin ala G12 it probably still would have fallen flat on its face in public opinion perhaps ?

Of course, Im talking about elite within the competition, no labeling of a set number of elite corps, then self - labeling and trying to strong arm their position within the community or take-off. Top 12 make finals, finals are the big dance, all corps are equally able to compete to get into that show. 13th place is just as important as 1st place, there would be no competiton without it.

G

[Scoutnout]

When DCi was formed back in 72, there were over hundreds of corps that benefited form that decision, there were loads of fans and tons of "blood" to sustain and grow the new model..there is no such animal in 2010..its clearly this is all about greed no matter how much you disagree, it is NOT about giving kids opportunity to march drum corps and fans to witness the best "drum corps" in the world.....its a niche group of a niche activity that simply will not generate enough interst or money to sustain and grow, and none of them have the insight or brains to create and grow such a model..I mean, look at the proposal and previous decisions..I rest my case.

G

Yes there were more fans back then,,... the world was different also and that DOES have alot to do with it from membership to fans. It was everything you said But tell me other than a select # of corps how did hundreds benefit from the formation of DCI. All i know is i saw hundreds fold and YES it had to do with the NEW FORMAT called DCI.

My point in all this is that a select few power houses can do some damage and evoke change.

I will say to the 7.....It's very arrogant to think you can do all this without backlash and arrogant to think you can do this alone. On the other hand its just as arrogant for the rest of us to think that there is strength in those 7. Ignore and think they dont have a chance, thats like many did back in the 70s and when you least expect it there will only be 7 left period!.Just look back.