Michael Boo Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 ... Harders shows take longer to clean... Do I want to know what a show of harders is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 So you are saying that if the Kingsmen or 27th reappeared next year they would already have the inertia to enable them to win DCI?. I addressed the "starting over" situation in the original article, noting that it can happen. Madison pushed the rest button, and got unqualified staff in there...and went NOWHERE. Now they have an entire organization of people who have--and understand--CI. Madison 2010 is no re-set. Just look at the Music Rep numbers they've already been given...100% CI, lol, wow. It's so obvious. Madison will get every single "tie goes to the runner" this season. This is the pure definition of CI! It won't get them to 1st place, even though lots of people will think they should be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 All Competitive Inertia says is that a corps has to "prove itself" by placing in the Top 3 at least once in it's DCI history before it can win the title.It does not say that any corps which has placed in the Top 3 in the past can win REGARDLESS OF THEIR PERFORMANCE LEVEL. If Kingsmen or 2-7 came back next year AND performed at such a level that they were contenders, the judges would, at some level, take their past success into consideration IF ALL OTHER THINGS WERE EQUAL (ex. BD and 2-7 perform at such high quality that it's hard to distinguish who the better corps is). If Bluecoats this year performs at such a level that they are contenders (which, personally, I believe they do and are), the judges would, at some level, take their lack of past Championship success (i.e. never been in Top 3) into consideration IF ALL OTHER THINGS WERE EQUAL (ex. BD and Bloo perform at such high quality that it's hard to distinguish who the better corps is) Thank you, Kevin. You definitely "get it." I think a better term for this theory would be Competitive Reputation. Inertia leaves room for things other than reputation. For example, let's say a corps has a fire in their food truck the day of a show. The act of the fire set some things in motion, very emotional things, that humans can't suppress when evaluating. It won't be enough for say, Pioneer, to win. But it might be enough to put Pioneer over a very close rival...for a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 bloo came out of the gates hot in 2007, too. peaked early. odds of that happening again this year are pretty high. LOVE their show, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gellio Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 (edited) You're right. And most people that attended 1988 Finals would agree, except former Scouts members and Scouts homers. Almost everyone else is in agreement SCV should've won that show. Going to Europe in 1988 [just going...forget about any rehearsal advantage it may have had], along with the fact that it was Madison's 50th anniversary year, added to the CI [tug the heart strings, mystique] in a big way. I don't blame you for telling yourself that you were awesome and deserved it...I'm sure I would too! Congratulations on your win in 1988. No one can take it away from you. I love how you say, "No one can take it away from you" right after you try and take it away from me. Who is everyone else that agrees that SCV should have won that show? Almost everyone else is a broad statement, and it sure as heck didn't seem like the 40,000 in the stands did based on the eruption when BD was anounced in 3rd and even bigger eruption when SCV was announced in 2nd. People are entitled to their opinion, but we were awesome in '88 - so were SCV and BD. Had either of them won, I would not be on here proclaiming we got screwed. The numbers fell in our favor....numbers given by qualified judges, but I always forget that everyone on here is qualified to judge every single caption from a video performance no less. It doesn't matter what anyone says on here, I am World Champion, I have a ring, and it was given to me by a set of people who certainly know a heck of a lot more than any of us when it comes to judging. I can't believe people think there is some conspiracy behind that win (like the judges purposely robbed SCV) when the finals judges had NO IDEA where the semi-final judges placed everyone. I think it speaks volumes about the quality of the judging that there were only two changes in placement from semi's to finals (Garfield hopped Cavies and VK hopped Spirt). I think the blind draw created a level of fairness in judging never seen before or since. Not that I disagree with judging much, because I have no qualifications to judge. CI had absolutely nothing to do with our win, nor did any "tug the heart strings". It was a magical year, and unexplainable forces did seem to be at work, but the Scouts were generally a 4th - 7th place corps years before '88 and years after '88. Everything that a corps needs to have happen to win did for us in 1988. The fact that Madison won in 1975 had no barring on the judges awarding us first place, nor did our 50th anniversary, or going to Europe. Speaking of Europe, you were not there. I was. We had a lot of free time on that tour as the staff wanted us to experience Europe rather than just rehearse and perform. Edited June 30, 2010 by gellio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I love how you say, "No one can take it away from you" right after you try and take it away from me. I can't change the reality of your ring. I wish I could, lol, but I acknowledge reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 ...I guess my point is that rather than across seasons, there's incredibly little movement captured within a season. Interesting analysis, though I might be less surprised by the fact that most corps trade in a fairly narrow range all season. Why should there be wider swings given the relatively few variables show to show? The program is mostly static with incremental changes/improvement occurring for all corps at more or less the same rate. The staff and members are mostly constant. The judging panel is probably the biggest variable but even there the participation of multiple judges tends to dilute the impact of any deviations (except maybe Cadets percussion score at finals 2009!). Competitive inertia is an explanation, not a process. It describes a trend where one exists. Corps can't leap from the lower and middle ranks to the highest rank without first achieving an intermediate stop near the highest rank. That's not because there are rules against it. It's because change happens gradually in drum corps. Mike's stats show as much. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Interesting analysis, though I might be less surprised by the fact that most corps trade in a fairly narrow range all season. Why should there be wider swings given the relatively few variables show to show? The program is mostly static with incremental changes/improvement occurring for all corps at more or less the same rate. The staff and members are mostly constant. The judging panel is probably the biggest variable but even there the participation of multiple judges tends to dilute the impact of any deviations (except maybe Cadets percussion score at finals 2009!).Competitive inertia is an explanation, not a process. It describes a trend where one exists. Corps can't leap from the lower and middle ranks to the highest rank without first achieving an intermediate stop near the highest rank. That's not because there are rules against it. It's because change happens gradually in drum corps. Mike's stats show as much. HH Right on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Thank you, Kevin. You definitely "get it."Inertia leaves room for things other than reputation. For example, let's say a corps has a fire in their food truck the day of a show. The act of the fire set some things in motion, very emotional things, that humans can't suppress when evaluating. It won't be enough for say, Pioneer, to win. But it might be enough to put Pioneer over a very close rival...for a day. In a nutshell, you basically have to "arrive" to be "greeted" ....... G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Who is everyone else that agrees that SCV should have won that show? Ummmm....me? (Hand raised). And I know I'm not ANYBODY or EVERYBODY (hat tip to the evil witch). And I loved your '88 show and don't want to take anything away from your satisfaction from your win. But I thought SCV outperformed Madison that year, and their show was more entertaining to my ears and eyes. Just my opinion. And you deserve every bit of yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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