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Top 12...Is It Already Set?


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Colts were robbed last year by what should have been a 17th place Troopers.

Come again ? Troopers went head to head with Madison Scouts last year 12 times before the Semi's... beat them all 12 times.... by an average of over 2 points each time. Troopers went head to head with Crossmen 4 times before last year's Semi's... beat Crossmen all 4 times.... by an average of over 3 points, and in the quarters by over 4 points.

So you're saying that if these Corps got just one more bite at the apple last year they would have beaten the Troopers at Semi's to put the Troopers in " 17th " ?

What was the heat index where you were when you typed this above ? Maybe you were just dehydrated a bit when you typed that the Troopers wern't a top 16 Corps last season.

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Great point! Should be some great shows for that tier of corps! BK will also be at the Denver show, although I see them scoring higher than those mentioned.

BK and Glassmen will end up right next to each other again at finals. Whoever beat the other at the last Toledo show will lose to the other at finals. Its happened the last 2 years :tongue:

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BK and Glassmen will end up right next to each other again at finals. Whoever beat the other at the last Toledo show will lose to the other at finals. Its happened the last 2 years :tongue:

Yup! A sampling of two contests is enough.

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Come again ? Troopers went head to head with Madison Scouts last year 12 times before the Semi's... beat them all 12 times.... by an average of over 2 points each time. Troopers went head to head with Crossmen 4 times before last year's Semi's... beat Crossmen all 4 times.... by an average of over 3 points, and in the quarters by over 4 points.

So you're saying that if these Corps got just one more bite at the apple last year they would have beaten the Troopers at Semi's to put the Troopers in " 17th " ?

What was the heat index where you were when you typed this above ? Maybe you were just dehydrated a bit when you typed that the Troopers wern't a top 16 Corps last season.

PLUS the fact that these panels had different people on them every time....consipiracy?? Don't think so....

Suggest that MisterA drop this little rant of his, kick back and have a beer (if he's legal, that is..)...before he proves out what the 'A' in his signature stands for...

Edited by prodigal bari
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You watch their performance!? It sure looked and sounded like it when I saw and heard it! Madison came off as hungry and performed like they wanted to be in finals, unlike the Crossmen.

Maybe they worked hard, but it was painfully obvious to me and obviously to the panels that Madison wanted it more, and the Crossmen fell out, and Madison went in, quite deservedly so!

I watched the rankings that summer, and the Crossmen were consistently 10th to 12th, usually solidly in 10th all season. How do you fall out when you're in that spot at the last second over Finals Weekend, huh?? You tell me! It usually happens when someone loses momentum, and at that point in the season, usually to mental issues. If the fall-out would have happened 2 weeks before finals, which it did not-- I wouldn't be as hard on them.

So who's spouting junk, or are you just upset someone with years of experience in the activity calls a spade a spade in this case?

I don't Crossmen were anywhere near 10th in the entire season.

From watching semis on the webcast, I also thought Madison deserved the spot, and Crossmen seemed to be missing "it". I wouldn't describe that as "thinking they had 12th wrapped up" though. Why wouldn't they have been hungry to make sure they got back into finals for the first time in 5 years?

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Not to add another "type" of placement theory onto this thread, but Im wonderng if "slotting" has alot to do with

this topic....... IMHO I think -regardless a disaster happens during prelims- the top 8 or 9 World Class corps are

"in" for finals.... BUT...I question some scores and believe slotting is/has taken place.........

I guess the only way to overcome this is with the corps memebers themselves ... pushing themselves harder to clean

and tone their shows........

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You watch their performance!? It sure looked and sounded like it when I saw and heard it! Madison came off as hungry and performed like they wanted to be in finals, unlike the Crossmen.

Maybe they worked hard, but it was painfully obvious to me and obviously to the panels that Madison wanted it more, and the Crossmen fell out, and Madison went in, quite deservedly so!

I watched the rankings that summer, and the Crossmen were consistently 10th to 12th, usually solidly in 10th all season. How do you fall out when you're in that spot at the last second over Finals Weekend, huh?? You tell me! It usually happens when someone loses momentum, and at that point in the season, usually to mental issues. If the fall-out would have happened 2 weeks before finals, which it did not-- I wouldn't be as hard on them.

So who's spouting junk, or are you just upset someone with years of experience in the activity calls a spade a spade in this case?

For the record, the only shows that matter when discussing stuff like this are the shows where the corps in question face each other head to head. In the large regional events in 2008, the Crossmen finished 12th in San Antonio, and 12th in Atlanta. I have a hard time classifying Allentown the same way, because despite having the same panels, we're still talking about two different nights. The Crossmen and Madison did not perform on the same night in Allentown that year, but for argument sake let's imagine they did and it was a full corps line up of 17 or 18 corps. The Crossmen would have finished 12th there as well. In all three regionals, the Scouts came in (or would have, in the case of Allentown) 13th. So I'm not sure where this whole 10th place thing is coming from. It certainly isn't reflected in the scores from that summer. The two corps in question, the Crossmen and the Scouts, were pretty much sitting at 12th and 13th all summer long, and neither one very far from the other at any given point score-wise.

In the end, Madison peaked at the right time and made it in. It's not the first time something like this has happened, and it won't be the last. You keep going on about them "wanting it more," but I think that's a bunch of nonsense. Besides being something that is totally and completely unquantifiable, we're talking about two corps who were greatly flawed in several areas. When you weigh the strengths and weaknesses of two very similar competing corps, it's not surprising to see something happen like what took place. And despite my obvious allegiances, I certainly have no problems with how it all turned out because I've ALSO got years of experience in the activity and I know how things go. But the whole "they wanted it more" argument falls flat for me because it implies that the other corps simply didn't care or didn't work their behinds off, when I know for a fact that isn't true. They cared deeply and they busted their butts to get that 12th spot. It's insulting to suggest otherwise. The reality is that it's a competition. They came up just short. It happens, and it has little if nothing to do with their "desire."

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But overall, what the results show in the FIRST week of a corps season is a very close evaluation where they will end up at Indy. The odds from decades of DCI seasons do not bode well for corps opening with a mid to high 60's making the top 12, never mind a chance at the coveted top 5/6!

Looking at everyone's first show score, if this theory holds up the top 12 would be:

Blue Devils

SCV

Boston Crusaders

Blue Stars

Crown

Blue Coats

Phantom

Cadets

Cavaliers

Madison Scouts

Glassmen

Crossmen

The top 11 started at 70 or better with 12 starting at 68.1. The others (Blue Knights, Academy, Troopers, Spirit, Colts) that would vie for the 12th spot scored from 65 to 67.2. These are first show scores only. I got the scores from the Blue Knights sight so the number after decimal point may not be exact.

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I think the only corps that could have a worry would be Glassmen. And the corps they would have to worry about.. the Colts. Colts were robbed last year by what should have been a 17th place Troopers. At this point I would not put Colts above Glassmen, however, I think their show might have a little more potential by August to improve than Glassmen. And to be honest, I have the feeling if they were even within a point of Glassmen at the end of the season, they would probably end up with that last finals spot.

I agree w/ your assessment. Having seen no shows, I just have the feeling the Colts sneak in this year, and there is no way Madison Scouts get left out if they're close.

What about the Blue Knights? Last year they had a pretty dirty show, but alot of demand-- when they match up w/ the eastern corps this year, they could be left out at the end.

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July 10th will tell much. First big regional shows, full judging panels.

DENVER:

Colts

Glassmen

Troopers

KALAMAZOO:

Spirit

Crossmen

Madison

I'm road tripping to the Kalamazoo show-- Got my ticket--I wish it was right now! My seat is section C row 28 seat 5. I'm ampped!

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